Why do people think the economy is still bad? [MERGED]

[MrRational]

Originally Posted by Returning2USA

Like usual... For those in high levels of debt.

As usual... for the 50-60% who aren't among the self congratulating "I got mine" cohort.

A recent 8 page thread... is an example of that echo chamber:
//www.city-data.com/forum/econo...kids-will.html

[SoCal_Native]

Originally Posted by papafox

Why do I keep hearing so many people give the impression the economy is still bad like it was 2008-2014?

Probably they fall into two groups: They're making political statements (e.g. they hate Trump) OR they're losers in the first place and they'll always be losers.

It really doesn't get much better than this: Unemployment rock bottom, your house's price at an all time high, interest rates still very low, S&P still at record highs, even gas has come down a little but still cheaper than the 1970s. Rates for other things , such as cell data have fallen. Ditch diggers have 4G smart phones in their pockets. Unemployment is so low nobody really wants to get rid of illegals - we're all addicted to their cheap labor and its contribution to high investment returns.
Enjoy these days while you can; These ARE the "good old days".

[C2BP]

Originally Posted by SoCal_Native

Probably they fall into two groups: They're making political statements (e.g. they hate Trump) OR they're losers in the first place and they'll always be losers.

It really doesn't get much better than this: Unemployment rock bottom, your house's price at an all time high, interest rates still very low, S&P still at record highs, even gas has come down a little but still cheaper than the 1970s. Rates for other things , such as cell data have fallen. Ditch diggers have 4G smart phones in their pockets. Unemployment is so low nobody really wants to get rid of illegals - we're all addicted to their cheap labor and its contribution to high investment returns.
Enjoy these days while you can; These ARE the "good old days".

How delusional do you have to be to write something like you just did? Unemployment numbers are fake and phoney. Millions and millions people aren't even counted any more--they're statistical zombies, no longer among the living workforce. If the unemployment rate were calculated on the number of full-time jobs and the true workforce (everyone ages 18 - 70), the unemployment rate would not be the absurdly delusional 3.7% claimed by the bureaucratic con artists.

$1 million and up for a decaying bungalow in California, $300K and up for a cookie cutter house in desert of Nevada or Arizona, stocks at all time high and etc is an example of “everything bubble economy” achieved by interest rates suppression, ZIRP, stealing public money, future money stolen from our kids and grandkids to create an illusion of economic growth.

Wake up, fake is still fake. And today virtually everything is fake. Good Luck!

[mco65]

THe economy constantly evolves.... and it moves up and down but not at the same speed for everyone. Some are enjoying a great economy and doing well, some are not.. they are either on the backside of the good economy or the good economy just had little to no effect on their lifestyle.

As an example, if the medium price for houses were to double over night yet i didn't own a house, how does that effect me.. it doesn't!

On the flip, say the medium price of houses collapsed over night yet i didn't' own a house.. See how that works!

[Kentucky62]

Why do people think the economy is still bad? It depends

All economies are local. If your in a small or isolated town and the only manufacturing plant, utility or retailer of any size for 60+ miles has just shut its doors, your in serious trouble, as are the mom and pop diners, your local hardware store, your school district etc etc . Single major employers create a ripple effect impacting housing values, property taxes and continued government services.

Just go on line and type in WARN ACT and a state. Normally your .gov site will have these listed . You may be surprised at what is coming that you have not heard about. It's not all gloom and doom of course and there are other opportunities and businesses being created, but often for a 20 year+ employee they have to start at a bottom wage all over again.

example https://kcc.ky.gov/Pages/News.aspx

Companies are required to comply with the WARN act for any layoff or plant closure. These are the ones that were filed since 2018 . Not every small business complies but major companies must or face fines.
This one is a bit dated as the 600 jobs at Briggs and Stratton is missing and the totality of the plant shutdown of american Greeting 400 jobs was not updated from the original 150 person layoff.

County Company Employees Closure or Layoff Projected Date

Jefferson FFO Home 52 Closure 10/1/2019
Campbell TMK IPSCO 159 Layoff 9/24/2019
Fayette Red Ventures 94 Layoff 10/31/2019
Perry Sykes Enterprises 179 Layoff 9/3/2019
Hart HOLLANDER SLEEP P 208 Closure 8/21/2019
Jefferson CEVA LOGISTICS 74 Closure 8/18/2019
Simpson Harman 158 Closure 8/2/2019
Warren Union Underwear 100 Layoff 7/22/2019
Kenton Concentrix CVG 175 Closure 9/30/2019
Pulaski Vista Behavioral 132 Layoff 6/1/2019
Fayette Continuum Global 117 Layoff 6/21/2019
Greenup CSXT Locomotive 113 Closure 4/5/2019
Hardin FLINT GROUP 81 Layoff 6/30/2019
Laurel CONDUENT State 97 Layoff 4/21/2019
Pulaski BrightSpring Health 93 Layoff 4/19/2019
Jefferson BrightSpring Healt 125 Layoff 3/31/2019
Jefferson Performance Team 42 Layoff 2/20/2019
Jefferson Cooper Transport 425 Closure 4/21/2019
Woodford LED VANCE LLC 253 Closure 9/27/2019


2018 warn notices note some impact in 2019
Date Received County: Company Name Employees Closure or Layoff? Projected Date
12/13/2018 Scott Leggett & Platt, Inc. 146 Layoff 2/14/2019
12/12/2018 Jefferson t IQOR Global Service 128 Layoff 2/11/2019
11/30/2018 Fayette Piramal Pharma Solutions 38 Layoff 1/29/2019
11/27/2018 Boone Graham Packaging 57 Closure 1/25/2019
10/31/2018 Boone Pomeroy Solutions 163 Closure 6/30/2019
10/30/2018 Jefferson Mondi Industrial Bags 100 Closure 12/31/2018
10/30/2018 Kenton Concentrix CVG Corp. 258 Closure 12/28/2018
10/26/2018 Jefferson K&T SWITCHING SERVICE 52 Layoff 12/24/2018
10/26/2018 Jefferson K&T SWITCHING SERVICE -Chamberlain Lane 38 Layoff
10/16/2018 Calloway County Murray State University 44 Layoff 12/14/2018
10/1/2018 Madison Kentucky River Foothills Development Council 142 Layoff 12/31/2018
9/27/2018 Fayette County dormakaba USA Inc. 58 Layoff 12/3/2018
9/27/2018 Rockcastle Oxford Government Consulting 68 Layoff 11/23/2018
9/27/2018 Jefferson Gannett Satellite Information Network 73 Layoff 12/31/2018
8/20/2018 Jefferson County - Louisville Werner Co. 118 Closure 10/9/2019
7/26/2018 Warren County US BANK -Bowling Green 100 Closure 9/28/2018
7/18/2018 Boone Taylor & Francis Group LLC 68 Closure 9/28/2018
7/12/2018 Jefferson WAL-MART Store #1269 206 Closure 9/14/2018
7/12/2018 Fayette WAL-MART Store #2060 203 Closure 9/14/2018
7/12/2018 Jefferson WAL-MART Store #4523 96 Closure 9/14/2018
7/12/2018 Jefferson WAL-MART Store #3841 92 Closure 9/14/2018
7/5/2018 Jefferson Dean Milk Co 76 Closure 9/7/2018
7/3/2018 Nelson American Greetings Corp-Bardstown 275 Closure 9/7/2018
7/2/2018 Perry Magic Mart Store #650 29 Closure 10/1/2018
7/1/2018 Pike Magic Mart Store #960 31 Closure 10/1/2018
6/14/2018 Jefferson Savers 59 Closure 8/12/2018
6/5/2018 Jefferson DNR Group LLC-Innovairre 54 Layoff 8/2/2018
5/31/2018 Jessamine ALBAAD USA INC 104 Closure 8/31/2018
5/21/2018 Fayette THE BOEING COMPANY-Lexington 99 Layoff 7/13/2018
5/1/2018 Fulton Prairie Farms-Fulton 52 Closure 6/30/2018
3/1/2018 Jefferson CONIFER REVENUE CYCLE SOLUTIONS LLC 128 Layoff 4/30/2018
2/23/2018 Jefferson Flextronics Americas LLC 314 Layoff 9/1/2018
2/12/2018 Bullitt GILT Distribution Center 250 Closure 9/28/2018
1/18/2018 Kenton Abm Industries Inc./ABM Aviation 65 Layoff 3/7/2018
1/11/2018 Nelson American Greetings Corp-Bardstown 150 Layoff 3/16/2018
1/9/2018 Boyd KES Kentucky Electric Steel 113 Closure 3/10/2018

A lot of people hear of plant closures, layoffs, bankruptcies ect in their communities. This creates a natural sense of unease and people start to talk to relatives in other states as we all have families. Bad news moves quickly. The wages & benefits replacing the lost jobs are at times no where close to what is being lost. Large US companies I know of are offshoring traditionally safe financial jobs to India and Ireland. A young man who worked for me says his example is a mess. He was tasked with the job of helping with the transition and had to go over for several months. The turnover is high because of low wages paid by the services company in India ( ironic ) and their boast of staffing with highly qualified college grads is BS. Others who have been though this meat grinder say that their local college grads are the equivalent of our 12th grade in a poor USA high school. But the parasites of Price Waterhouse, KPMG, Deloitte and other such consultants of the world tout this "savings" to CEO/CFO as a real savings in pay, especially benefits and related employee support services. My brother in law was involved in the early 2000's with this first wave of IT, engineering and lab work off shoring and then it was finance. Eventually all but the most basic transactional work of finance came back to the usa along with some engineering development work as the data was just not safe. Its not just China taking intellectual property. What happened to IT in the late 0's and 90's is happening to other office workers that before now have been relatively safe. What is that new college grad to do 10 -15 years from now.?

Some large metro areas of the USA have done very well and are able to draw some replacement industries while others are stagnant and some see a further decline depending on the industries they support. A friend of mine was involved in negotiation with a union and the new starting wage is $10 an hour but the only reason they pegged it that high was to stay out of the papers for avoid being tagged as paying the states poverty threshold level wages. I had the same experience many years ago in NY state. The older workers were tossing the younger new hires under the bus on wages and benefits to maintain their own. Believe it or not, it was the company that raised the introduction wage for the very reason cited above. Not because it was the right thing to do but because they did not want the potential bad press as another large corporation had recently been tagged with. The cost was not that much in the grand scheme of things and the cost of turn over due to the nature of the job and scrap created more than justified paying more but the CEO/HRVP would not have it. They had a number in their heads, god knows where it came from but it was not based on any facts or study.

So how the economy is doing very much depends on where you are in the risk to your job category and your ability to take your kids out for a happy meal and not have to think too much about how to pay for it.

[skeddy]

Originally Posted by Kentucky62

Why do people think the economy is still bad? It depends

All economies are local. If your in a small or isolated town and the only manufacturing plant, utility or retailer of any size for 60+ miles has just shut its doors, your in serious trouble, as are the mom and pop diners, your local hardware store, your school district etc etc . Single major employers create a ripple effect impacting housing values, property taxes and continued government services.

Just go on line and type in WARN ACT and a state. Normally your .gov site will have these listed . You may be surprised at what is coming that you have not heard about. It's not all gloom and doom of course and there are other opportunities and businesses being created, but often for a 20 year+ employee they have to start at a bottom wage all over again.

example https://kcc.ky.gov/Pages/News.aspx

Companies are required to comply with the WARN act for any layoff or plant closure. These are the ones that were filed since 2018 . Not every small business complies but major companies must or face fines.
This one is a bit dated as the 600 jobs at Briggs and Stratton is missing and the totality of the plant shutdown of american Greeting 400 jobs was not updated from the original 150 person layoff.

County Company Employees Closure or Layoff Projected Date

Jefferson FFO Home 52 Closure 10/1/2019
Campbell TMK IPSCO 159 Layoff 9/24/2019
Fayette Red Ventures 94 Layoff 10/31/2019
Perry Sykes Enterprises 179 Layoff 9/3/2019
Hart HOLLANDER SLEEP P 208 Closure 8/21/2019
Jefferson CEVA LOGISTICS 74 Closure 8/18/2019
Simpson Harman 158 Closure 8/2/2019
Warren Union Underwear 100 Layoff 7/22/2019
Kenton Concentrix CVG 175 Closure 9/30/2019
Pulaski Vista Behavioral 132 Layoff 6/1/2019
Fayette Continuum Global 117 Layoff 6/21/2019
Greenup CSXT Locomotive 113 Closure 4/5/2019
Hardin FLINT GROUP 81 Layoff 6/30/2019
Laurel CONDUENT State 97 Layoff 4/21/2019
Pulaski BrightSpring Health 93 Layoff 4/19/2019
Jefferson BrightSpring Healt 125 Layoff 3/31/2019
Jefferson Performance Team 42 Layoff 2/20/2019
Jefferson Cooper Transport 425 Closure 4/21/2019
Woodford LED VANCE LLC 253 Closure 9/27/2019


2018 warn notices note some impact in 2019
Date Received County: Company Name Employees Closure or Layoff? Projected Date
12/13/2018 Scott Leggett & Platt, Inc. 146 Layoff 2/14/2019
12/12/2018 Jefferson t IQOR Global Service 128 Layoff 2/11/2019
11/30/2018 Fayette Piramal Pharma Solutions 38 Layoff 1/29/2019
11/27/2018 Boone Graham Packaging 57 Closure 1/25/2019
10/31/2018 Boone Pomeroy Solutions 163 Closure 6/30/2019
10/30/2018 Jefferson Mondi Industrial Bags 100 Closure 12/31/2018
10/30/2018 Kenton Concentrix CVG Corp. 258 Closure 12/28/2018
10/26/2018 Jefferson K&T SWITCHING SERVICE 52 Layoff 12/24/2018
10/26/2018 Jefferson K&T SWITCHING SERVICE -Chamberlain Lane 38 Layoff
10/16/2018 Calloway County Murray State University 44 Layoff 12/14/2018
10/1/2018 Madison Kentucky River Foothills Development Council 142 Layoff 12/31/2018
9/27/2018 Fayette County dormakaba USA Inc. 58 Layoff 12/3/2018
9/27/2018 Rockcastle Oxford Government Consulting 68 Layoff 11/23/2018
9/27/2018 Jefferson Gannett Satellite Information Network 73 Layoff 12/31/2018
8/20/2018 Jefferson County - Louisville Werner Co. 118 Closure 10/9/2019
7/26/2018 Warren County US BANK -Bowling Green 100 Closure 9/28/2018
7/18/2018 Boone Taylor & Francis Group LLC 68 Closure 9/28/2018
7/12/2018 Jefferson WAL-MART Store #1269 206 Closure 9/14/2018
7/12/2018 Fayette WAL-MART Store #2060 203 Closure 9/14/2018
7/12/2018 Jefferson WAL-MART Store #4523 96 Closure 9/14/2018
7/12/2018 Jefferson WAL-MART Store #3841 92 Closure 9/14/2018
7/5/2018 Jefferson Dean Milk Co 76 Closure 9/7/2018
7/3/2018 Nelson American Greetings Corp-Bardstown 275 Closure 9/7/2018
7/2/2018 Perry Magic Mart Store #650 29 Closure 10/1/2018
7/1/2018 Pike Magic Mart Store #960 31 Closure 10/1/2018
6/14/2018 Jefferson Savers 59 Closure 8/12/2018
6/5/2018 Jefferson DNR Group LLC-Innovairre 54 Layoff 8/2/2018
5/31/2018 Jessamine ALBAAD USA INC 104 Closure 8/31/2018
5/21/2018 Fayette THE BOEING COMPANY-Lexington 99 Layoff 7/13/2018
5/1/2018 Fulton Prairie Farms-Fulton 52 Closure 6/30/2018
3/1/2018 Jefferson CONIFER REVENUE CYCLE SOLUTIONS LLC 128 Layoff 4/30/2018
2/23/2018 Jefferson Flextronics Americas LLC 314 Layoff 9/1/2018
2/12/2018 Bullitt GILT Distribution Center 250 Closure 9/28/2018
1/18/2018 Kenton Abm Industries Inc./ABM Aviation 65 Layoff 3/7/2018
1/11/2018 Nelson American Greetings Corp-Bardstown 150 Layoff 3/16/2018
1/9/2018 Boyd KES Kentucky Electric Steel 113 Closure 3/10/2018

A lot of people hear of plant closures, layoffs, bankruptcies ect in their communities. This creates a natural sense of unease and people start to talk to relatives in other states as we all have families. Bad news moves quickly. The wages & benefits replacing the lost jobs are at times no where close to what is being lost. Large US companies I know of are offshoring traditionally safe financial jobs to India and Ireland. A young man who worked for me says his example is a mess. He was tasked with the job of helping with the transition and had to go over for several months. The turnover is high because of low wages paid by the services company in India ( ironic ) and their boast of staffing with highly qualified college grads is BS. Others who have been though this meat grinder say that their local college grads are the equivalent of our 12th grade in a poor USA high school. But the parasites of Price Waterhouse, KPMG, Deloitte and other such consultants of the world tout this "savings" to CEO/CFO as a real savings in pay, especially benefits and related employee support services. My brother in law was involved in the early 2000's with this first wave of IT, engineering and lab work off shoring and then it was finance. Eventually all but the most basic transactional work of finance came back to the usa along with some engineering development work as the data was just not safe. Its not just China taking intellectual property. What happened to IT in the late 0's and 90's is happening to other office workers that before now have been relatively safe. What is that new college grad to do 10 -15 years from now.?

Some large metro areas of the USA have done very well and are able to draw some replacement industries while others are stagnant and some see a further decline depending on the industries they support. A friend of mine was involved in negotiation with a union and the new starting wage is $10 an hour but the only reason they pegged it that high was to stay out of the papers for avoid being tagged as paying the states poverty threshold level wages. I had the same experience many years ago in NY state. The older workers were tossing the younger new hires under the bus on wages and benefits to maintain their own. Believe it or not, it was the company that raised the introduction wage for the very reason cited above. Not because it was the right thing to do but because they did not want the potential bad press as another large corporation had recently been tagged with. The cost was not that much in the grand scheme of things and the cost of turn over due to the nature of the job and scrap created more than justified paying more but the CEO/HRVP would not have it. They had a number in their heads, god knows where it came from but it was not based on any facts or study.

So how the economy is doing very much depends on where you are in the risk to your job category and your ability to take your kids out for a happy meal and not have to think too much about how to pay for it.

if someone has a conflict over whether they can afford to buy their kid a Happy Meal, they have big problems these days.. Maybe they should fill out a job application at McDonalds instead.