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Old 05-05-2019, 08:34 PM
 
Location: midwest
1,452 posts, read 1,118,966 times
Reputation: 898

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
GDP is crude as a number at best and always somewhat arcane in meaning as it relates to Joe Blow.
The Depreciation of the durable consumer goods amounts to loss of Joe Blows net worth. If consumers knew what not to buy then manufacturers would know what not to manufacture.

Instead we have spent decades producing garbage that got added to GDP. Manufacturing more junk that falls apart faster is economic growth.

It is like we are supposed to think about economics the they way economists tell us to. Notice that economists never suggest making accounting mandatory in the schools. Does that mean that "education" is really about manufacturing workers?

Last edited by psikeyhackr; 05-05-2019 at 08:55 PM..
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Old 05-06-2019, 02:49 AM
 
Location: Cebu, Philippines
5,881 posts, read 2,660,279 times
Reputation: 10784
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
With modern money, spending on our military should have little impact on spending for other public support programs. Unless there are direct conflicts with resources or inflation erupts, we can do HC, education and/or infrastructure, and keep our military. i.e. we are no longer limited by USD as we were on a gold std. in 1949.

With Progressives and Trump in 2020 I believe that our people will be getting further education on the USD. Which is our/their money that they deserve to control.

For the record, Idid not tie military to the present case. i said Big Brother used military depreciation in a way analogous to the wasteful market depreciation being used by the present oligarchy, to the same purpose.
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Old 05-06-2019, 08:24 AM
 
951 posts, read 332,177 times
Reputation: 1490
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnhw2 View Post
It takes three times as much money to live the same way. Inflation especially in medical and anything involving people have soared in cost. Home prices have more than tripled since my growing up days and along with it property tax and insurance costs and repairs. New roof for my current house cost twice the price if my first house in 1973. Thank you DC
Everything you listed is due to greed.
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Old 05-06-2019, 08:30 AM
 
11,399 posts, read 4,835,434 times
Reputation: 2463
Quote:
Originally Posted by psikeyhackr View Post
The Depreciation of the durable consumer goods amounts to loss of Joe Blows net worth. If consumers knew what not to buy then manufacturers would know what not to manufacture.

Instead we have spent decades producing garbage that got added to GDP. Manufacturing more junk that falls apart faster is economic growth.

It is like we are supposed to think about economics the they way economists tell us to. Notice that economists never suggest making accounting mandatory in the schools. Does that mean that "education" is really about manufacturing workers?
There is obviously relatively good and bad productivity. Make a car that lasts forever and that would be great for the consumer. Maybe not so good for the manufacturer. Create a massage technique that is permanent, and much the same. GDP is a crude measure of national productivity, not consumer satisfaction, or even their std. of living.
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Old 05-06-2019, 08:40 AM
 
11,399 posts, read 4,835,434 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowpacked View Post
Everything you listed is due to greed.
Not everything. There has to be some inflation related to deficit spending, new money creation directed toward social benefits.
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Old 05-06-2019, 09:54 PM
 
Location: Cebu, Philippines
5,881 posts, read 2,660,279 times
Reputation: 10784
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowpacked View Post
Everything you listed is due to greed.

That applies to every economic culture we have any record of. Greed is tempered only when people get tired of stepping over bodies in the streets and employ public workers to haul them away in the night. And sometimes even take measures to reduce their troublesome incidence.
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Old 05-07-2019, 01:56 PM
 
151 posts, read 80,286 times
Reputation: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalExpectations View Post
False.

The key to the fallacy in your conclusions lies in the way you phrase your premise.
  • First, what you think is a fact is actually somewhere between a "fake fact" and "your opinion."
  • Second, you phrase your statement in the passive voice: "...IS STRUCTURED." That begs the question, "who is this Snidely Whiplash doing this nefarious structuring, why is he doing it?
The answer is clear: no one is doing any structuring. There is no Snidely Whiplash. There is no evil, nefarious person doing any structuring. That dismantles the rest of your argument, of course.



False.

It was never structured. It was never true long before, just as it isn't true today and will not be true tomorrow.



False.

Options have never been better.



False.

The bargaining power is at all-time highs for all people, including the self-reliant



False.

Managers do not compel anyone. They don't carry .44 Magnums into the office, hold it to the head of employees and compel them to do anything whatsoever.



False.


Compensation is at all-time highs, of course, because the economy is going gangbusters.
  • Non-exempt employees are paid according to the various Federal and State statutes and regulations, and often under a collective bargaining agreement that puts the employer at an extreme disadvantage.
  • Exempt employees are paid to accomplish goals and objectives, not to put in hours, and at any rate are also subject to the various Federal and State statutes and regulations.



False.

Exempt employees are not hired to "do tasks." They are employed to accomplish goals and objectives.



False.

Employers have hired anyone with a pulse who can show up to work on time, investing in extensive OJT and skillset enhancement in order to get work done, as we do not have enough quality employees available to do the job.



That's clear, but you you've served up a "Nothing Burger." There is no meat.


Perhaps you should move this discussion over to the Politics forum where I'm sure you'll get a bunch of room-temperature IQ Bernie supporters to agree with you.

You ripped that poor guy to shreds!


No mercy whatsoever!!
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Old 05-07-2019, 04:20 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,717 posts, read 4,106,468 times
Reputation: 13398
Quote:
Originally Posted by psikeyhackr View Post
The Depreciation of the durable consumer goods amounts to loss of Joe Blows net worth. If consumers knew what not to buy then manufacturers would know what not to manufacture.
You're so close to useful ideas with this line, but cling to an almost absurd economic inversion that is difficult to support or use as an argument in any other way.

Yes, everything wears out - the Sphinx, the Pyramids and the Great Wall included. It's not some vast conspiracy that consumer goods don't last forever; that consumer purchases are not lifetime growth investments.

Move on to the real point here.
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Old 05-07-2019, 08:09 PM
 
Location: midwest
1,452 posts, read 1,118,966 times
Reputation: 898
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
There is obviously relatively good and bad productivity. Make a car that lasts forever and that would be great for the consumer. Maybe not so good for the manufacturer. Create a massage technique that is permanent, and much the same. GDP is a crude measure of national productivity, not consumer satisfaction, or even their std. of living.
Making a car that lasts forever is probably impossible. But in the late 1930s engineers could design planes that could fly at 400 mph to fight WWII. They did not have computers to do aerodynamic simulation. How much does redesigning and manufacturing cars to make them look different every year increase their cost? If the useless variations were eliminated and some of that savings applied to materials to make them last longer could they easily and reliably last 30 years? The depreciation would still exist but the savings could have been applied to paying off mortgages since 1960.

Could most Americans have had homes paid for and a 3-day work week by the 1990s?

In the 1930s John Maynard Keynes was writing about "grandchildren" having a 15 hour work week.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/timwors...rk-week-wrong/

Oh really?

Has that 15-hour week been used up by the Great Acceleration?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Acceleration

What would mandatory accounting in the schools since 1960 have done to the economy?

Is how most people think about, or fail to think about, economics more significant to how the economy really works than economic theory? If they don't think about it then they are manipulable pawns. Ye olde Game Theory!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory...nomic_Behavior

How many players don't know how to play and the educational system makes sure they don't.
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Old 05-09-2019, 05:36 PM
 
Location: Henderson, NV
6,702 posts, read 6,882,214 times
Reputation: 8958
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
It's not a matter of wishing for some kind of legislated equality, like that stupid thread about distributing all money equally.

It's a matter of putting a chokehold on capitalism so that the distribution is more proportional to contribution and the overall distribution of wealth really does raise all boats.

I don't object to CEOs and stockholders making a lot of money. But when the ratios get as absurdly out of whack as we have now, it's destabilizing on every level.

And that's with the current system. Gross wealth inequality simply won't work any more, in the very near term, and should be built out in a new system.
Why?! You act like there’s only so much to go around and somehow other people having money hurts you. It’s a truly infantile understanding of how the economy works. This idea that “wealth inequality” is some evil, this stupid buzzword, is completely absurd. There are more people than ever before, so yes, when someone makes an Amazon or a Facebook they are going to be MUCH richer than in 1780 when someone ran a successful tools shop in a city and only had a small client base relative to 7 billion humans. There’s nothing abnormal about that and there’s absolutely zero that should be done about it.

The free market is self-correcting, you don’t just decide “gee this guy makes too much money, I don’t like that, we should take his money and distribute it to these poor idiots!” No, it doesn’t work that way. Workers are paid what they’re worth to the market. If there are 100 people willing to flip burgers and only 40 burger flipping jobs, guess what? No wage increase! Low demand, high supply. If there are a need for 100 qualified doctors at a hospital and only 50 doctors anywhere around to fill the jobs, wages are going up so that maybe some out of town or out of country doctors may consider relocating to fill these 50 empty job openings. It’s really, really simple to understand. Even a 7-year-old can get this math.
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