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View Poll Results: The country with the best economic system is:
Canada 7 8.33%
Japan 5 5.95%
Germany 12 14.29%
China 3 3.57%
United States 43 51.19%
Denmark 2 2.38%
Norway 6 7.14%
Australia 6 7.14%
Voters: 84. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-04-2019, 09:43 AM
21 posts, read 10,786 times
Reputation: 90


Originally Posted by JonathanLB View Post
Yeah I don’t give two craps about any “gap” between rich and poor. That entire argument is shut down and nullified completely by an entire laundry list proving what nonsense it is - that the alleged “poor” in this country live better than the middle class throughout Europe. They have more cars, more TVs, more living space, and more opportunities. Who cares if the richest 100 people are worth $30 billion on average instead of $15 billion so the “gap” just doubled?! Totally irrelevant as it means nothing whatsoever. The vast majority, say 95%, of that wealth is tied up in stock and investments, capital that is working for the entire economy. Jeff Bezos only even had a successful company for at best 20 years. He isn’t the heir to some 200 year old fortune. He’s proof that this system works perfectly, so perfect it’s beautiful really, that mere ideas and genius and hard work can DESTROY entire industries and bring major companies to their knees! That’s the type of beauty I like to see in a system where all of the money in the world isn’t enough to stop a great idea. Where Netflix can be founded by a couple dudes who get laughed out of the office of the powerbroker in that industry, Blockbuster, with all of this money behind them and a mere two decades later go take a dump on the site where one of the last Blockbusters died at their hands lol.

No, the system works great, thanks very much. Almost all of the money and power is concentrated in people who built these companies in the last 30 years and changed the world around us. I don’t see that coming from any other country. There will be new revolutions in industry and new companies and these powerhouses now know that staying on top is a whole different ballgame and if they don’t keep up, they’ll be the next MySpace or Blockbuster or Toys R Us. That’s how it should be. Companies are no more immune to financial ruin than individuals. Ultimate competition leads to a better world in general.

I freely and proudly admit I don’t care about the bottom 10% even 1/100 as much as I care about the top 10%. If we did nothing but worry about the laziest, dumbest elements of society we’d never take a step forward as a species. Progress has always been the domain of the top of the human race and the rest of the people are dragged kicking and screaming into the future let’s just be honest about that. There have always been poor people, stupid people, lazy people and there always will be. I’m not wasting 5 seconds thinking about their plight when I can focus on science and technology and how to make sure we’re creating a society that gives motivation and tools for the next Bill Gates and the next Elon Musk to arise. For whatever reasons, despite our supposedly mediocre education system, it’s still always America that completely and utterly dominates the technological innovation and entrepreneurship of the world. What is all this great European education accomplishing? What is the end goal? Is it to create good little socialist sheep who serve the system? The American economy and system creates winners, it creates monumental men and women who drive humanity forward. I’m not seeing the result of the “great” European education and economies. It’s just mediocrity and entitlements. If you want mediocrity, great, I don’t. I’d rather a society where the best of the best have maximum opportunity to succeed and the losers are left behind than a society where everyone is satisfied enough and nobody is that great, just a big oatmeal bowl of mediocrity. Hard pass from me.

Jonathan LB, that is the most refreshingly blunt, original, and maybe even inspirational comment I have read in a long time. It took me a long time to understand a lot of what you have referenced, as I used to stand on the other side admiring a more social and European view of the world. However, after dragging myself up from the bottom, traveling the world and the US, having a variety of personal experiences with people from all walks of life and levels of education, I have settled on a view similar to yours.
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Old 07-04-2019, 10:32 AM
18,908 posts, read 24,327,399 times
Reputation: 36213
the U.S. hands down has more opportunities for anyone and everyone......no classes..

my two best friends in high school...both minorities... didn't go to college...but started their own businesses....one started mowing lawns and odd jobs....and landscaping...he worked and worked got more and more jobs..upgraded his equipment.... and hired others...
he now has a very successful company...
the more he worked....the more he got rewarded...the more frugal he is...the less he wasted on drugs/alcohol/other vices...he managed his monies very well

I worked 3 jobs after high school...in a slaughterhouse ...and on a commercial fishing boat....learned the value of a dollar.....I worked thru the weekends while my liberal friends..smoked weed …. and partied..

I worked my way thru college while many of them ...dropped out squandered an opportunity ...their parents were paying for..
I APPRECIATED what I have because I came from humble beginnings..
I took opportunities and ran with them...
I now live on a lake...my slice of heaven...

while my dope smoking friends...complains and whines about everything/one else...but themselves..

im of the mindset of the American dream.....with a hard work effort you can be and go as far as you want... the person in the mirror is your only anchor...

I was a commercial broker for many years..and assisted many ethnics buying a business..and they did awesome...most of them but they put in the hours.....and effort..
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Old 07-04-2019, 10:39 AM
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,717 posts, read 3,570,098 times
Reputation: 13334
Originally Posted by mainebrokerman View Post
the U.S. hands down has more opportunities for anyone and everyone......no classes..
Well, to start with, neither half of that is true. Just maybe the US 'has more opportunities' in the sense that we're a larger nation, but on a per-capita basis it's well established that a number of countries have much, much better economic mobility than we do.

And if you cling to the idea that the US is classless, you're reading 1950s propaganda.

Yay for you, though. Good thing your only opponent was the guy in your mirror.

Last edited by Quietude; 07-04-2019 at 11:04 AM..
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Old 07-04-2019, 02:30 PM
Location: SoCal
3,872 posts, read 2,745,711 times
Reputation: 3178
Originally Posted by JonathanLB View Post
I like a system that offers maximum reward to the successful and lets them keep the most of their money, and doesn’t offer much to the losers, except through private charities and organizations. The US comes the closest but ideally would have far fewer social programs and much lower taxes still. The government is still way too big and wasteful and mediocrity is encouraged more than it should be. Part of it is a cultural thing. My favorite culture is Japan honestly, they are honorable people who value hard work and dedication almost to a fault but I like that. The US is somewhere in the middle, some people are like that (our best and brightest ARE the best and brightest in the entire world), and some aren’t, and Europe is firmly in the slacker category where 4 hour siestas mid-day and working as little as possible is the ideal. I don’t have any respect for European countries outside of the U.K. and Germany. They’re a bunch of lazy slackers more interested in their past than any sort of future whatsoever. It’s sad.
I don't think a government should look at it's citizens as "successful" and "loosers". I think like you said the country should allow a system that allows ambitious people to pursue their ambitions meaning a system that supports and promotes entrepreneurship as this is honestly the single most effective way of getting extremely wealthy. I however think any country that has the means to ensure that none of it's citizens live in poverty should also do that. The things is poor people spend almost 100% of the income on goods meaning the most effective way for a government to ensure that money makes its way to all citizens is really to start at the bottom. Looser or not you should have access to basic civilized nation amenities. I think a good system takes in all monies made in a year and divide the tax rate on this basis. If one makes 1% of all money in one country for a year then said individual should pay minimum 1%. High taxes do not discourage ambitious folks.

Many have been fed the propaganda of the "welfare queen" to motivate others to allow those who have excessive amount of wealth to hold onto it. The thing is even if this was true the conditions that some on welfare are living on aren't really worth paying. If you had to contend with the possibility of violence upon yourself or your family, terrible schools, inadequate maintenance, lack of buisnesses, and just down right mhhisery that some live in in this country. I think you'd understand why it's free or close to it because jts it's simply not worth. Again you're only as strong as your weakest link and no matter how much success as been gained.
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Old 07-04-2019, 03:29 PM
Location: Myrtle Creek, Oregon
13,138 posts, read 13,181,618 times
Reputation: 21299
You didn't list any of the really good economies.

Cayman Islands
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Old 07-04-2019, 03:33 PM
6,733 posts, read 1,822,863 times
Reputation: 5685
I hear income in Cuba is 100% equal.
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Old 07-04-2019, 03:35 PM
Location: New York Area
17,879 posts, read 6,997,749 times
Reputation: 13718
Originally Posted by Grlzrl View Post
I hear income in Cuba is 100% equal.
The DPRK does better in terms of income equality and opportunity.
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Old 07-04-2019, 03:36 PM
6,733 posts, read 1,822,863 times
Reputation: 5685
Originally Posted by 80skeys View Post
The U.S. is too much unfettered capitalism, it definitely does not serve its citizens the best, there should be caps on how much money any single entity (individual, company) can earn so as to prevent too much money (and power) from being concentrated. Wealth needs to be spread around more. When money is concentrated in small groups, those groups have too much power in decision-making that affects too many other people. Inequality of wealth distribution results in inequality in many other things.
Who gets to decide how much money is too much? You?
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Old 07-04-2019, 11:48 PM
Location: East Coast of the United States
18,355 posts, read 20,405,216 times
Reputation: 14335
Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell View Post
You didn't list any of the really good economies.

Cayman Islands
What is so special about Cayman Islands?

Aren’t they kind of small to have much of an economic system?
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Old 07-04-2019, 11:58 PM
Location: Haiku
6,255 posts, read 3,155,208 times
Reputation: 8899
You could have saved a lot of words and just asked, Are you (a) socialist, (b) capitalist.

Really, this question is at the heart of the 2020 election, which in many ways is shaping up to be a referendum on how socialist the US should be. So, just look at the polls and you will have your answer on what American attitudes are on it. It doesn't matter what I think, but what the voters decide next year.
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