Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You could have saved a lot of words and just asked, Are you (a) socialist, (b) capitalist.
Really, this question is at the heart of the 2020 election, which in many ways is shaping up to be a referendum on how socialist the US should be. So, just look at the polls and you will have your answer on what American attitudes are on it. It doesn't matter what I think, but what the voters decide next year.
The way you've framed it is by far too stark of a choice. Unfortunately, in our polarized ideological climate the juxtaposition of these two "choices" reveals a dangerous blind spot that exists on BOTH the left and the right (in the USA).
The left needs to better appreciate the role of capitalism in producing abundance. The right needs to square up to the unyielding fact of bad luck and the indispensable role of safety nets in a market economy. Effective social safety nets also help mute democratic demand for reactionary economic nationalism.
Quite a few politicians on the left seem to not to know or care that today’s model social democracies also boast model capitalist economies that are in many ways more economically laissez-faire than the "wickedly" capitalist American system.
According to the Heritage Foundation’s Index of Economic Freedom, for instance, Denmark where taxes are high and welfare spending is lavish, outscores the United States in the security of property rights, ease of starting a business, openness to trade, and monetary freedom.
Denmark. Very business-friendly market economy and ranks very highly for quality of life. Denmark's GDP per capita is higher than the U.S.
The U.S. is great at concentrating wealth in the hands of a relative few, but for the bottom 90% it's just okay. Quality of life, health care, education have all fallen relative to other countries. "Make America Great Again" has done nothing to improve health care, education, improving wages and so on.
Yeah I don’t give two craps about any “gap†between rich and poor. That entire argument is shut down and nullified completely by an entire laundry list proving what nonsense it is - that the alleged “poor†in this country live better than the middle class throughout Europe. They have more cars, more TVs, more living space, and more opportunities. Who cares if the richest 100 people are worth $30 billion on average instead of $15 billion so the “gap†just doubled?! Totally irrelevant as it means nothing whatsoever. The vast majority, say 95%, of that wealth is tied up in stock and investments, capital that is working for the entire economy. Jeff Bezos only even had a successful company for at best 20 years. He isn’t the heir to some 200 year old fortune. He’s proof that this system works perfectly, so perfect it’s beautiful really, that mere ideas and genius and hard work can DESTROY entire industries and bring major companies to their knees! That’s the type of beauty I like to see in a system where all of the money in the world isn’t enough to stop a great idea. Where Netflix can be founded by a couple dudes who get laughed out of the office of the powerbroker in that industry, Blockbuster, with all of this money behind them and a mere two decades later go take a dump on the site where one of the last Blockbusters died at their hands lol.
No, the system works great, thanks very much. Almost all of the money and power is concentrated in people who built these companies in the last 30 years and changed the world around us. I don’t see that coming from any other country. There will be new revolutions in industry and new companies and these powerhouses now know that staying on top is a whole different ballgame and if they don’t keep up, they’ll be the next MySpace or Blockbuster or Toys R Us. That’s how it should be. Companies are no more immune to financial ruin than individuals. Ultimate competition leads to a better world in general.
I freely and proudly admit I don’t care about the bottom 10% even 1/100 as much as I care about the top 10%. If we did nothing but worry about the laziest, dumbest elements of society we’d never take a step forward as a species. Progress has always been the domain of the top of the human race and the rest of the people are dragged kicking and screaming into the future let’s just be honest about that. There have always been poor people, stupid people, lazy people and there always will be. I’m not wasting 5 seconds thinking about their plight when I can focus on science and technology and how to make sure we’re creating a society that gives motivation and tools for the next Bill Gates and the next Elon Musk to arise. For whatever reasons, despite our supposedly mediocre education system, it’s still always America that completely and utterly dominates the technological innovation and entrepreneurship of the world. What is all this great European education accomplishing? What is the end goal? Is it to create good little socialist sheep who serve the system? The American economy and system creates winners, it creates monumental men and women who drive humanity forward. I’m not seeing the result of the “great†European education and economies. It’s just mediocrity and entitlements. If you want mediocrity, great, I don’t. I’d rather a society where the best of the best have maximum opportunity to succeed and the losers are left behind than a society where everyone is satisfied enough and nobody is that great, just a big oatmeal bowl of mediocrity. Hard pass from me.
Greatness and Materialism are the two terrors of human society.
The way you've framed it is by far too stark of a choice. Unfortunately, in our polarized ideological climate the juxtaposition of these two "choices" reveals a dangerous blind spot that exists on BOTH the left and the right (in the USA).
The left needs to better appreciate the role of capitalism in producing abundance. The right needs to square up to the unyielding fact of bad luck and the indispensable role of safety nets in a market economy. Effective social safety nets also help mute democratic demand for reactionary economic nationalism.
Quite a few politicians on the left seem to not to know or care that today’s model social democracies also boast model capitalist economies that are in many ways more economically laissez-faire than the "wickedly" capitalist American system.
According to the Heritage Foundation’s Index of Economic Freedom, for instance, Denmark where taxes are high and welfare spending is lavish, outscores the United States in the security of property rights, ease of starting a business, openness to trade, and monetary freedom.
Abundance hasn't been a good thing.
It hasn't offered an abundance of public goods which is more important than consumer products.
Denmark. Very business-friendly market economy and ranks very highly for quality of life. Denmark's GDP per capita is higher than the U.S.
So are Denmark's marginal income tax rates, starting around 35% and rising to about 55% for higher wage earners. This does not include an indirect 25% VAT tax on all goods purchased in Denmark.
On the other hand, these high tax rates support the welfare system.
Denmark. Very business-friendly market economy and ranks very highly for quality of life. Denmark's GDP per capita is higher than the U.S.
The U.S. is great at concentrating wealth in the hands of a relative few, but for the bottom 90% it's just okay. Quality of life, health care, education have all fallen relative to other countries. "Make America Great Again" has done nothing to improve health care, education, improving wages and so on.
Just saw this by accident.
Denmark definitely does not have higher per capita GDP numbers than the US. I just looked at four sources and The US trounces Denmark in this area it's not close.
So are Denmark's marginal income tax rates, starting around 35% and rising to about 55% for higher wage earners. This does not include an indirect 25% VAT tax on all goods purchased in Denmark.
On the other hand, these high tax rates support the welfare system.
Again the claim made by Eliott is false. The US beats Denmark in PPP GDP and nominal per capita GDP according to all the important sources. FWIIW nominal per capita GDP should be disregarded by most anyway but that's a different topic.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
