Social Security/Medicaid and the euthanization of American labor.

[evilnewbie]

You don't need to raise taxes, I posted a solution already. Stop ALL social security and medicare right NOW. Use a 90% inheritance tax on all the people collecting social security/medicare to pay off their use of that system. Anyone over the age of 50 who sells or transfers property are taxed at a higher rate as they are trying to "escape" the inheritance tax. However there are exclusions such as selling your home to purchase another home or to move in a nursing care facilitiy. Its easy to do and free up the rest of us and shuts down the useless social security entitlement program. Do the same with medicare. And if retirement "insurance" is what you need then mandate that EVERYONE who gets a paycheck set aside 10% of their income into a personal 401k or IRA and make it completely 100% tax deductible. That is also easy to do and prepares everyone to retire comfortably. Social security is NOT and was NOT suppose to be a retirement plan, which the people today keep thinking.

[One Thousand]

Originally Posted by Megande

It is possible for the deficit to be that large, GDP would just have to grow proportionately and people would have to continue to be willing to invest in the government (bonds, etc). Since we owe the money mostly to ourselves, the deficit is really only bound by what the government can borrow.

If investment is going outside the country, is it realistic to expect growth to grow rapidly enough?

I disagree that "we owe it to ourselves." If my neighbor buys a bond, I don't own it at all.

Are you referring to national debt or budget deficits? Your beliefs are based wholly on growth keeping pace, right? (Because, without that growth, taxes would have to be increased to service the debt which would cause worker demoralization via taxes and investment leaving?) Besides the 90's, when technology spurred rapid growth in the U.S. and the post-WWII era, are there any times in U.S. history that the economy grew at that rate?

Originally Posted by M

I personally think the system of forced savings is a little paternalistic, but I don't think it is going anywhere.

And forcing people to participate in a politician controlled virtual savings is?

Originally Posted by evilnewbie

You don't need to raise taxes, I posted a solution already. Stop ALL social security and medicare right NOW.

I'm not arguing. However, radical ideas might require a gentler approach.

[Megande]

Originally Posted by One Thousand

If investment is going outside the country, is it realistic to expect growth to grow rapidly enough?

That I don't know. I don't think our economy will collapse because of social security because I'm a big believer that markets work. Americans are nothing if not innovators, and at some point, I think we would be forced to a free market solution and the problem would take care of itself.

Originally Posted by One Thousand

I disagree that "we owe it to ourselves." If my neighbor buys a bond, I don't own it at all.

I meant that most of the debt is the American government borrowing from Americans. You can't literally borrow from yourself...asking myself for money is going to be pretty pointless. I can transfer it from one pocket to another all day but it isn't going to do me any good.

Originally Posted by One Thousand

Are you referring to national debt or budget deficits? Your beliefs are based wholly on growth keeping pace, right? (Because, without that growth, taxes would have to be increased to service the debt which would cause worker demoralization via taxes and investment leaving?) Besides the 90's, when technology spurred rapid growth in the U.S. and the post-WWII era, are there any times in U.S. history that the economy grew at that rate?

I'm not even sure what belief of mine you are referring to. All I said in my original post was that it is possible to have a large deficit. I didn't mention taxes.

Originally Posted by One Thousand

And forcing people to participate in a politician controlled virtual savings is?

Again, I'm not sure what you are referring to. I said I didn't care for the social security program. I didn't mention what alternative I would prefer (which, if you are interested, is getting rid of the program entirely and letting people save for their own retirement.)

[One Thousand]

Originally Posted by Megande

I'm not even sure what belief of mine you are referring to. All I said in my original post was that it is possible to have a large deficit. I didn't mention taxes.

If you carry a deficit/debt, you have to pay to borrow that money. That's "servicing" which means taxes. From my layman's perspective, debt/deficit implies more taxes in the future.

Originally Posted by M

Again, I'm not sure what you are referring to. I said I didn't care for the social security program. I didn't mention what alternative I would prefer (which, if you are interested, is getting rid of the program entirely and letting people save for their own retirement.)

Oh, I thought you were saying something else.

I wish we could be on our own. However, how's that quote go about citizens bowing to the sovereign and begging to have freedom taken away and caring for them?

It seems like the only route is going to be to be weaned off the teet of the government because so many people are in love with politicians... I wish they'd watch CSPAN for a month and realize the politicians are no brighter...