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Old 12-06-2019, 06:46 PM
 
8,985 posts, read 9,637,031 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenlove View Post
Cute how people think newly employed people are stupid. I was never "rich" but I made a very good living in sales. I never had an issue with my taxes going towards what they were going towards, even before I was making such a good living. Most of us were smart, even way back when we were young.

I think the OP is projecting their beliefs. The niece made one comment in passing and suddenly she's "enlightened", by the OP's observation. It might have even been a joke. Imagine that!
I get that it's convenient to believe that people with differing views are lying or embellishing that's not the case here.

And for the record I never said or implied that my niece is stupid. She was naive.......two different things.
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Old 12-06-2019, 07:31 PM
 
Location: Western Washington
9,784 posts, read 8,972,104 times
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There are a lot of people jumping on the Republican=good, Democrat=bad bandwagon here. I won’t get into the economic or political arguments, because that is a futile discussion. I will say that I am a relatively high wage earner, I have owned, and currently do own, small businesses, and I strongly support left/Democratic/progressive policies.

Simply earning money does not change party affiliation, and for me some of that is because I don’t agree with the myth that the republicans are the party of fiscal responsibility. I feel that they are fiscally insane.
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Old 12-06-2019, 08:16 PM
 
2,994 posts, read 1,879,295 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbrains View Post
Simply earning money does not change party affiliation, and for me some of that is because I don’t agree with the myth that the republicans are the party of fiscal responsibility. I feel that they are fiscally insane.

LOL


They've got a helluva misinformation campaign going on their fiscal record. Ever since Reagan was in office, Republican spending certainly hasn't been any more fiscally responsible than Democrats. (In fact, our national debt has only decreased under one President since then, and it's Clinton.)


But Democrats certainly don't help themselves any by pushing these astronomically costly Green New Deal ideologies.
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Old 12-06-2019, 08:28 PM
 
714 posts, read 316,417 times
Reputation: 2999
I'm just happy that my NYC-working, high tax paying adult children haven't lost their liberal ideals.

They have no one in their world who thinks like most of the
people posting here.

But then, they're not in the world of high finance or prestigious law.

Birds of a feather, etc.
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Old 12-06-2019, 08:47 PM
 
Location: too far from the sea
20,967 posts, read 19,914,982 times
Reputation: 36244
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
A lot of idealism of youth comes crashing down once they get a full time job and see how much is taken out in taxes.
It's a light bulb moment for many.
Maybe that's based upon where you live, but where I live, I can find my old friends from college who were liberal then and still are. We are all retired now and are still liberal. Not crazy giving money away for free liberal, not free this and free that, but all for social safety nets so that people are not suffering, all for everyone getting health care, better pay for working people and more taxes for the super duper billionaire 1% to whom donating a bit of money means relatively nothing compared to the middle class having to donate their taxes.

Earning money and paying taxes didn't change our fundamental values.
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Old 12-06-2019, 08:50 PM
 
Location: Formerly Pleasanton Ca, now in Marietta Ga
6,237 posts, read 4,495,718 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelsup View Post
Yep it absolutely does. I have a personal story....I confess I was similar to this niece out of school when younger. One can even view my posts on raising min wage and such a decade ago and see I was very firmly in the left camp.

However I have almost come completely around, as I have gotten into my 30's. I realize now that some people work harder than others and sacrifice to gain a foothold and accumulate assets while many do not. I am now mostly against government involvement in wages. I realize the best way to "raise the boat" is to "raise the tide", that is, to provide an environment for increased economic activity so more people can take advantage of it. This is in contrast with the current left who strongly believe in mandating higher min wages and tax credits/guaranteed income to boost low income earners pay.

I'm not anti-democrat because they want to tax me. I am anti-democrat because I mostly disagree with the far left viewpoint of heavily taxing those who sacrifice and provide value to society to facilitate giving more to those who choose to not make those sacrifices early on in their lives and provide little value. Yes that makes me cold. But I've seen how the lower class live via low income rentals, and there is a reason they will never get ahead short of winning the lottery.

If you're going to tax (and we do already) the wealthy more, use the income to expand economic prosperity for those who work for it and are willing to put some effort in.

The person EDS describes worked hard in school. They deserve everything they have worked for, despite having it paid for which gives them a substantial leg up on those who weren't born to the right family. But it's quite telling that they want to pull the ladder up once they got theirs.
Thanks for the story. I think as we get older and experience things and see more our views can change.
I think when people see the money is coming out of their pocket for change their attitudes may change.
I get it , it’s hard to feel secure in a world there is very little allegiance to anyone.
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Old 12-06-2019, 09:11 PM
Status: "beach bum" (set 2 days ago)
 
Location: NMB, SC
2,165 posts, read 542,212 times
Reputation: 3460
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenlove View Post
Cute how people think newly employed people are stupid. I was never "rich" but I made a very good living in sales. I never had an issue with my taxes going towards what they were going towards, even before I was making such a good living. Most of us were smart, even way back when we were young.

I think the OP is projecting their beliefs. The niece made one comment in passing and suddenly she's "enlightened", by the OP's observation. It might have even been a joke. Imagine that!
Well my son was also in the same boat....until he got a full time job same as the OP's niece.
He's 28.
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Old 12-06-2019, 09:13 PM
Status: "beach bum" (set 2 days ago)
 
Location: NMB, SC
2,165 posts, read 542,212 times
Reputation: 3460
Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland View Post
Maybe that's based upon where you live, but where I live, I can find my old friends from college who were liberal then and still are. We are all retired now and are still liberal. Not crazy giving money away for free liberal, not free this and free that, but all for social safety nets so that people are not suffering, all for everyone getting health care, better pay for working people and more taxes for the super duper billionaire 1% to whom donating a bit of money means relatively nothing compared to the middle class having to donate their taxes.

Earning money and paying taxes didn't change our fundamental values.
Well that's not the same as today's progressive students graduating and getting full time jobs.
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Old 12-06-2019, 09:30 PM
 
Location: too far from the sea
20,967 posts, read 19,914,982 times
Reputation: 36244
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
Well that's not the same as today's progressive students graduating and getting full time jobs.
Well, we graduated and got full time jobs and we were probably considered progressive for our time. We wanted to end the Viet Nam War, after all! We wanted women's rights and Medicare for the elderly. We were for civil rights and we marched with Martin Luther King. We all worked at full time jobs until we retired and we all paid our taxes and we all are still as liberal as we were back then. We paid taxes, bought houses, bought cars, worked our tails off, and then finally retired. But we did no change our values and become conservative.

We do not want to give free money away but we still want safety nets and health care for all legal residents.
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Old 12-06-2019, 10:56 PM
 
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
7,846 posts, read 4,550,225 times
Reputation: 20242
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
And for the record I never said or implied that my niece is stupid. She was naive.......two different things.
Exactly. I can easily imagine a similar story in which the young person in question is a staunch conservative whose experience has led him or her to question some sincerely-held economic beliefs. (Who’s taking care of the kids in Galt’s Gulch? Yeah they are economic parasites, but they are also necessary if society is going to survive past one generation. Funny how Ayn Rand never discussed that in her book!)

Rigid ideology, whether leftist or right-wing, has a tendency to develop cracks when it collides with the rock of Reality. Which is why I think most people become more moderate in their beliefs as they age; they’ve learned through experience that easy answers to complex questions are not likely to work.
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