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Old 12-12-2019, 12:05 PM
 
Location: Boston
10,112 posts, read 2,927,291 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turf3 View Post
Good. He should have paid his debts.
Amen, don't feel sorry for him at all. The government has this figured out, eventually you're at their mercy.
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Old 12-12-2019, 01:22 PM
 
15,724 posts, read 8,470,993 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheerbliss View Post
The solution as I see it (going forward) is to get the government out of the student loan business and make student loans subject to bankruptcy. That way, if a lender is dumb enough to issue $75,000 in loans for a photography degree, that's on them if the borrower defaults. I don't think many lenders would make such loans in the first place if they had skin in the game.

As for student loans now, the median amount of student debt is $17,000. That isn't exactly a crushing amount of debt. Source: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...student-loans/
If you did that, the loan would be priced at market rate according to risk of default and likelihood of full repayment. 4.0 GPA engineering student at a top school? You can borrow as much as you want at relatively low rates. A High School ‘C’ student borrowing for a nothing BA degree at an unselective school? 20% interest rate and the amount would be very limited.

In Europe, college is generally free but only the top-5% get admitted. Snowflakes with C averages don’t go to college unless mommy and daddy pay.
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Old 12-12-2019, 03:19 PM
 
3,823 posts, read 1,058,144 times
Reputation: 6775
Quote:
Originally Posted by turf3 View Post
Let me let you in on a little secret.


Debt doesn't go away because you say "begone!"
The Millennials wouldn't say "begone." They'd say "Expelliarmus!"
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Old 12-12-2019, 07:09 PM
 
Location: Indianapolis, East Side
1,378 posts, read 703,704 times
Reputation: 3464
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1insider View Post
Unless she had a very long period of underemployment, she must be making interest-only payments. Plugging in some numbers to a loan calculator shows her $70,000 loan should be down to roughly $50,000 after 11 years. Not only that, but the amount paid over that time would be $64,000--pretty close to the $60,000 she says she's paid. Hmm.

Images of her elsewhere indicate she found the funds to get a bunch of tattoos.
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Old 12-12-2019, 07:16 PM
 
Location: Indianapolis, East Side
1,378 posts, read 703,704 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
If you did that, the loan would be priced at market rate according to risk of default and likelihood of full repayment. 4.0 GPA engineering student at a top school? You can borrow as much as you want at relatively low rates. A High School ‘C’ student borrowing for a nothing BA degree at an unselective school? 20% interest rate and the amount would be very limited.
A C student being basically unable to go to a university is probably for the best. I know it's heresy to say it--but how many C students with nothing degrees regret their loans?

Such students would still have the options of community college, trade school, Lynda courses and the public library.
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Old 12-12-2019, 07:26 PM
 
Location: Indianapolis, East Side
1,378 posts, read 703,704 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taggerung View Post
Debt is never "erased," it is merely transferred. A student debt "jubilee" would only further bankrupt this nation. But hey, for anyone who thinks this is a sensible idea, why stop at student loans? Let's have a jubilee for mortgage debt, credit card debt, and auto loan debt too!!
Debt forgiveness for payday loans and rent-to-own deals would at least be a transfer to poor people instead of the middle class.* The typical person with a six-figure student loan has a post-graduate degree.

*I'm not in favor of this, either.
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Old 12-13-2019, 04:08 AM
 
15,724 posts, read 8,470,993 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheerbliss View Post
A C student being basically unable to go to a university is probably for the best. I know it's heresy to say it--but how many C students with nothing degrees regret their loans?

Such students would still have the options of community college, trade school, Lynda courses and the public library.
The data is from 2017 but 67.7% of 2016 High School grads were enrolled in college in 2017. 2.2 million out of 3.1 new High School grads. The median IQ is 100. That is insufficient intellect to handle real college academics so there are probably half of those doing a fairly useless “college-lite” remedial High School program with many of those borrowing large piles of cash. The whole educational cartel thing is insane.
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Old 12-13-2019, 05:47 AM
 
6,936 posts, read 5,172,487 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
.....The median IQ is 100. That is insufficient intellect to handle real college academics so there are probably half of those doing a fairly useless “college-lite” remedial High School program with many of those borrowing large piles of cash. The whole educational cartel thing is insane.
Actually it takes very little intellect or work to get a college degree at most institutions of higher education. Grade inflation is beyond rampant. Students expect at least a "B" for merely showing up to most of the classes, not too hung over. Student evaluations are a big deal so the faculty has a major incentive to continue with grade inflation.

Regarding college being a place for "remedial High School", there is no doubt of that. American high school grads are towards the bottom of the heap when compared with graduates in other countries. Our kids rank down way below kids from most European countries. Most high school grads don't know enough math to solve a simple equation with one unknown. They might know a few dates and myths, but little history. Forget geography, they could not begin to tell you where Lithuania is and probably don't know the capital city of State adjacent to where they live.

There is nothing new about this. In fact ignorance is something we take pride in. I grew up with this song:

"Don't know much about history
Don't know much biology
Don't know much about a science book
Don't know much about the French I took

Don't know much about geography
Don't know much trigonometry
Don't know much about algebra
Don't know what a slide rule is for"
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Old 12-13-2019, 09:31 AM
 
15,724 posts, read 8,470,993 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrkliny View Post
Actually it takes very little intellect or work to get a college degree at most institutions of higher education. Grade inflation is beyond rampant. Students expect at least a "B" for merely showing up to most of the classes, not too hung over. Student evaluations are a big deal so the faculty has a major incentive to continue with grade inflation.

Regarding college being a place for "remedial High School", there is no doubt of that. American high school grads are towards the bottom of the heap when compared with graduates in other countries. Our kids rank down way below kids from most European countries. Most high school grads don't know enough math to solve a simple equation with one unknown. They might know a few dates and myths, but little history. Forget geography, they could not begin to tell you where Lithuania is and probably don't know the capital city of State adjacent to where they live.

Thus my reference to "educational cartel". It's the way to shake down mediocre 18-year-olds.


If you go to a college that requires a minimum 600+ Math/600+ Verbal SAT score to get admitted, the academic rigor is totally different. Graduate schools and employers know that. In my high tech universe, I'm going to toss a resume that shows two years of community college and 2 years of some 3rd tier state school with an "engineering" or "computer science" degree unless something else really jumps out. The odds are really low that they'll have the intellect to handle the work. The profs can't teach with proper academic rigor because almost the whole classroom would fail and the prof would be unemployed. Instead, they get a near-useless "college-lite" degree.


I think something closer to the German model makes sense. The median High School grad would then have access to lifetime vocational training through the local vocational-technical school and community colleges. Stop the nonsense of borrowing money for community college followed by a few years of undergrad at a lousy school. That's not helping anybody.
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Old 12-13-2019, 10:49 AM
 
2,011 posts, read 503,648 times
Reputation: 3089
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrkliny View Post
Actually it takes very little intellect or work to get a college degree at most institutions of higher education. Grade inflation is beyond rampant. Students expect at least a "B" for merely showing up to most of the classes, not too hung over. Student evaluations are a big deal so the faculty has a major incentive to continue with grade inflation.

Regarding college being a place for "remedial High School", there is no doubt of that. American high school grads are towards the bottom of the heap when compared with graduates in other countries. Our kids rank down way below kids from most European countries. Most high school grads don't know enough math to solve a simple equation with one unknown. They might know a few dates and myths, but little history. Forget geography, they could not begin to tell you where Lithuania is and probably don't know the capital city of State adjacent to where they live.

All correct. Colleges today will let everyone in because it is all a money grab. Tons of worthless degree tracks out there where graduates will stay underwater on their loans for life because there is no demand for these degrees in the marketplace. The government backstopping the loans is the only reason these degree tracks exist. There are only a handful of majors that actually have value in the job market today.
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