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Old 12-15-2019, 07:34 AM
 
437 posts, read 64,472 times
Reputation: 578

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheerbliss View Post
Once you've run all the employers--I mean, scumbags out of town, who's going to pay for a large portion of the population to sit around all day collecting welfare?

BTW, you haven't commented on whether you put your money where your mouth is by never hiring babysitters, or someone to mow your lawn, or teach your kids piano, or cook your food, or drive you somewhere, since those are all jobs that don't pay $20 an hour. Of course, you're free to pay some of those people $20 an hour yourself or tip them very generously. Do you?



Hey those employers (-- i mean scumbags) are then giving up the business they had in that community, abandoning it to somebody smarter with a better business plan. Cause some things cant be exported to country with cheaper labor and lax pollution controls, etc. As the old saying goes, dont let the screendoor hit you on way out.


We are talking EMPLOYERS, not people with minor side hustles.



Also apparently you dont buy the quality of person that charges $20 and lives in a legal apartment or house. You hire desperate homeless drug addict lady to babysit your kids, the homeless guy with the broken down mower (and bottle of Thunderbird in paperbag) to mow your lawn, and eat at Ecoli R Us for lunch with illegal slaves housed in semi trailer out back. Anybody ever tell you that you get what you pay for? Also sorry to hear you are so disabled you cant do your own chores....
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Old 12-15-2019, 07:34 AM
 
3,008 posts, read 1,968,807 times
Reputation: 6779
Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsflyer View Post
Sweet that will employ electrical engineers and technicians. when the rubber meets the road these sleazy business owners won't pony up for the automation. The automation has been available for years now and these crap bags just are too greedy to pay.

So I say bring it on if you can provide a fully automated restaurant that would be awesome. This is the same tired argument worthless business owners with tired sad business models have been bringing up for years.

I am a big-time CNC guy and I am all about automation ... so do it, oh wait electrical engineers wont pander to your sorry a$$ they would rather see you fold up shop and starve because of your a crap bag human being who is not really a business owner but a charlatan.

I want to see municipalities start ferriting these people out and ensuring they end up loosing thier busniness and having their assets seiezed in total in forclosure and bankruptcy including their personal assets and even tried for human rights violations.
Everyone of your proposals ends with seizing assets by force.

This probably isn’t the country for you.

And of course, you have no assets to seize, don’t run any business of your own with your “ideas”, don’t advise business professionally, and never managed capital. In other words, you’re ignorant, clueless, and are better served in a mental institution.


And by the way, your idea to seize assets doesn’t work. I’ve worked for two of the largest companies in the world who have had their plants stolen by force in Venezuela. It never ends well for the country employing these tactics because capital tends to flee and your currency becomes near useless.

You think some small municipality will get away with it? They’ll end up with zero jobs. Hell, there’s not even capital controls locally to keep the money from fleeing.

Last edited by Thatsright19; 12-15-2019 at 08:05 AM..
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Old 12-15-2019, 07:54 AM
 
437 posts, read 64,472 times
Reputation: 578
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddeemo View Post
What bunk - you need a lesson on economics. Wages are set by the market, not some idea of what it should be by an idealist. Many jobs were originally meant to be done by those starting out / least skilled (such as teenagers) are now being done by some who are now making a career of these type of mcjobs and wonder why they don't pay well.

In a free market, a "fair" wage is that where someone is willing to do the job is the amount someone is willing to pay for the job to get done. Without a minimum wage, the workers are paid the equilibrium wage (supply equals demand). For a minimum wage to impact the market, it must be above the equilibrium wage which will lead to excess supply of labor. The minimum wage legislation does help some workers by increasing their wages, but others may lose their jobs, especially those workers with lower skills and knowledge. Not necessarily a net benefit as some end up better able to support themselves and some now unable to support themselves. If economy growing, then wages are naturally increasing without need of artificially propping up.

Employers are not requiring a degree "just because they can" in a free market. There is a benefit to the employer and they are willing to pay it if it really exists. How many blue collar jobs such as landscapers, plumbers, construction, electricians, etc. are filled by those with a degree or went to China.

BS. How many teens do you see actually holding these jobs? The teen job thing is a red herring by those not even wanting to pay minimum wage. Scumbag employers rather hire desperate adults cause they are on call, teens have school and schedules have to work around school hours. Some states have limits on hours somebody under 18 can work. Meaning you cant work a full time job and go to school at same time.


Also I have seen few employers that promote the underage kid that works part time. Heck most employers dont even promote their adult employees, they go shopping for degrees and people that already have years of experience doing what they are wanting. They dont train anybody. They want somebody else to do that.



You are still not getting it that these are ADULT PEOPLE, they need housing, they need food, they need transportation, and most likely to remain productive, they need health care. You can pretend any job is only worth what some scumbag is willing to pay. But WHAT DO YOU DO WITH THE PEOPLE? Cause they gotta live too. Are you truly expecting a productive employee to live under a bridge and eat road kill roasted over a tire fire, just cause thats all you consider the job to be worth? And your neighbors then have to subsidize YOUR BUSINESS cause you dont pay your employees enough to live? Any job that doesnt pay enough for an adult to live in that community, isnt a job that community needs. Want to pay less, move your business to a community with lower living costs.



.
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Old 12-15-2019, 07:57 AM
 
3,008 posts, read 1,968,807 times
Reputation: 6779
Quote:
Originally Posted by HJ99 View Post
BS. How many teens do you see actually holding these jobs? The teen job thing is a red herring by those not even wanting to pay minimum wage. Scumbag employers rather hire desperate adults cause they are on call, teens have school and schedules have to work around school hours. Some states have limits on hours somebody under 18 can work. Meaning you cant work a full time job and go to school at same time.


Also I have seen few employers that promote the underage kid that works part time. Heck most employers dont even promote their adult employees, they go shopping for degrees and people that already have years of experience doing what they are wanting. They dont train anybody. They want somebody else to do that.



You are still not getting it that these are ADULT PEOPLE, they need housing, they need food, they need transportation, and most likely to remain productive, they need health care. You can pretend any job is only worth what some scumbag is willing to pay. But WHAT DO YOU DO WITH THE PEOPLE? Cause they gotta live too. Are you truly expecting a productive employee to live under a bridge and eat road kill roasted over a tire fire, just cause thats all you consider the job to be worth? And your neighbors then have to subsidize YOUR BUSINESS cause you dont pay your employees enough to live? Any job that doesnt pay enough for an adult to live in that community, isnt a job that community needs. Want to pay less, move your business to a community with lower living costs.



.
Pay them more, how? Raise prices? Raise prices...and wow...what do you know...the people at the bottom of the economic ladder are still struggling to buy things with their “higher pay”. additionally, businesses can’t just raise prices without losing market share, or they may not be in a position at all to do so relative to their suppliers. So basically, your idea would force companies to slash staff and become more efficient or automated. Then you find out that the true minimum wage is zero.

You have no idea how business works. You have no idea how value is created. You have no idea what the difference between demanding a salary and commanding one is.

If an adult hasn’t moved up and progressed after 5, 10, 15 years, that’s on them. If they’re being passed over for promotions by part time teens, don’t you think they may share some of the blame, if not all?
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Old 12-15-2019, 08:12 AM
 
Location: Indianapolis, East Side
1,361 posts, read 692,961 times
Reputation: 3439
Quote:
Originally Posted by HJ99 View Post
Hey those employers (-- i mean scumbags) are then giving up the business they had in that community, abandoning it to somebody smarter with a better business plan. Cause some things cant be exported to country with cheaper labor and lax pollution controls, etc. As the old saying goes, dont let the screendoor hit you on way out.
Nope. OP's plan is to increase wages by regulation, which is the opposite of competition, even if it means double-digit unemployment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HJ99 View Post

Also apparently you dont buy the quality of person that charges $20 and lives in a legal apartment or house. You hire desperate homeless drug addict lady to babysit your kids, the homeless guy with the broken down mower (and bottle of Thunderbird in paperbag) to mow your lawn, and eat at Ecoli R Us for lunch with illegal slaves housed in semi trailer out back. Anybody ever tell you that you get what you pay for? Also sorry to hear you are so disabled you cant do your own chores....
Most of my estate is willed to a nonprofit dedicated to challenging burdensome regulations that destroy jobs and businesses. Those regulations hit mom-and-pop operations and people at the lowest levels especially hard. I (mostly) buy pasture-raised animal products. I've replaced some of my lawn with native plants to help bee and butterfly populations. So yes, I'm living my values.

How about you? Are YOU paying $20 an hour for any services you hire? Boycotting products from countries with lax pollution control?
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Old 12-15-2019, 08:33 AM
 
Location: Guadalajara, MX
6,692 posts, read 3,241,688 times
Reputation: 12851
Quote:
Originally Posted by HJ99 View Post
BS. How many teens do you see actually holding these jobs?
Quote:
Originally Posted by HJ99 View Post
Also I have seen few employers that promote the underage kid that works part time.
What you have anecdotally seen is a very poor basis for statistical analysis. Are we really to believe you spend enough time involved in local businesses to know whether part time underage kids are promoted? I don't think so, you're just making assumptions that fit your worldview then stating them as facts.

As for the numbers you seek, instead of guessing that the entire country is well-represented by your casual observations, try here: https://www.bls.gov/web/empsit/cpseea18.htm

There are about 3.5 million teens 16-19 holding part time jobs.


Quote:
Originally Posted by HJ99 View Post
You are still not getting it that these are ADULT PEOPLE, they need housing, they need food, they need transportation, and most likely to remain productive, they need health care.
So a large portion of min wage workers are starving, living on the streets, and unable to get medical care?
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Old 12-15-2019, 08:44 AM
 
Location: Chandler, AZ
2,717 posts, read 1,378,536 times
Reputation: 6467
Quote:
Originally Posted by HJ99 View Post
Are you concerned how those wages are going to pay for living expenses in that community. Cause you dont pay living wage, you are forcing the rest of us to subsidize your workers through welfare. People dont just live on the air in Cincinnati.
If you choose to subsidize someone else's wage, how is that anyone's fault but your own? And, worse, those like you force all of us to do so. If that was really your concern, you'd vote to end the subsidies, which would force employers to pay more. But that isn't what you want at all.

How many employees do you have? Oh, right, none. How much of your capital and sweat have you invested into a business? Right, none. When are you going to put your money where your mouth is? Ahh, yes, never!

Spare us the hot air. We already get plenty from government , we don't need more from pie-in-the-sky useful idiot hangers-on, too.
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Old 12-15-2019, 08:45 AM
 
Location: Chandler, AZ
2,717 posts, read 1,378,536 times
Reputation: 6467
Quote:
Originally Posted by HJ99 View Post
Hey those employers (-- i mean scumbags) are then giving up the business they had in that community, abandoning it to somebody smarter with a better business plan. Cause some things cant be exported to country with cheaper labor and lax pollution controls, etc. As the old saying goes, dont let the screendoor hit you on way out.
Why don't you just step up with that "better business plan" and run these scumbag employers out of business? Why do you need government to force bad employers out of business? When are you going to act?
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Old 12-15-2019, 08:49 AM
 
Location: Indianapolis, East Side
1,361 posts, read 692,961 times
Reputation: 3439
Quote:
Originally Posted by HJ99 View Post
BS. How many teens do you see actually holding these jobs? The teen job thing is a red herring by those not even wanting to pay minimum wage. Scumbag employers rather hire desperate adults cause they are on call, teens have school and schedules have to work around school hours. Some states have limits on hours somebody under 18 can work. Meaning you cant work a full time job and go to school at same time.

Also I have seen few employers that promote the underage kid that works part time. Heck most employers dont even promote their adult employees, they go shopping for degrees and people that already have years of experience doing what they are wanting. They dont train anybody. They want somebody else to do that.

You are still not getting it that these are ADULT PEOPLE, they need housing, they need food, they need transportation, and most likely to remain productive, they need health care. You can pretend any job is only worth what some scumbag is willing to pay. But WHAT DO YOU DO WITH THE PEOPLE? Cause they gotta live too. Are you truly expecting a productive employee to live under a bridge and eat road kill roasted over a tire fire, just cause thats all you consider the job to be worth? And your neighbors then have to subsidize YOUR BUSINESS cause you dont pay your employees enough to live? Any job that doesnt pay enough for an adult to live in that community, isnt a job that community needs. Want to pay less, move your business to a community with lower living costs.
Just how many productive employees have you seen living under bridges? Or walking to work (outside a big city) or starving? As for teenagers who work minimum wage jobs, see post #13 for Bureau of Labor statistics.

So far in our hypothetical paradise, we've got high unemployment, boarded-up restaurants and retailers, a city council catering to favored businesses, and higher taxes to pay for $20-an-hour sanitation workers, lunch ladies, preschool teachers, mowers, janitors, security guards, and everyone else doing low-skilled work that does, in fact, have to get done. Sounds swell.
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Old 12-15-2019, 09:48 AM
 
6,872 posts, read 5,137,616 times
Reputation: 14853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatsright19 View Post
Everyone of your proposals ends with seizing assets by force.

This probably isn’t the country for you.

And of course, you have no assets to seize, don’t run any business of your own with your “ideas”, don’t advise business professionally, and never managed capital. In other words, you’re ignorant, clueless, and are better served in a mental institution.


And by the way, your idea to seize assets doesn’t work. I’ve worked for two of the largest companies in the world who have had their plants stolen by force in Venezuela. It never ends well for the country employing these tactics because capital tends to flee and your currency becomes near useless.

You think some small municipality will get away with it? They’ll end up with zero jobs. Hell, there’s not even capital controls locally to keep the money from fleeing.
Normally I would say your criticism is on the harsh side, but not in this case. We either have some sort of troll or someone who is ignorant, makes up facts to suit their beliefs and has no analytical skills. Actually I think all of the above apply.

There are areas where zoning and laws do prohibit entry by most businesses. These are some of the areas in the US with severe poverty, no jobs and the lowest standards of living with most inhabitants on assistance. These areas are Indian reservations, where businesses cannot open due to "zoning" and other restrictions. A business cannot open on a reservation because they have no protection and their profits and investment can be taken at the whim of the tribe. The tribes have demanded independence from local, State or Federal laws and they suffer the consequences.
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