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Old 12-16-2019, 12:45 AM
 
7,657 posts, read 3,367,239 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatsright19 View Post
Everyone of your proposals ends with seizing assets by force.

This probably isn’t the country for you.

And of course, you have no assets to seize, don’t run any business of your own with your “ideas”, don’t advise business professionally, and never managed capital. In other words, you’re ignorant, clueless, and are better served in a mental institution.


And by the way, your idea to seize assets doesn’t work. I’ve worked for two of the largest companies in the world who have had their plants stolen by force in Venezuela. It never ends well for the country employing these tactics because capital tends to flee and your currency becomes near useless.

You think some small municipality will get away with it? They’ll end up with zero jobs. Hell, there’s not even capital controls locally to keep the money from fleeing.
GOP loves to use venesula, a country with no real militart, no world influence, no drone program, no nuclear weapons, no navy

Capital can’t hide from the USA in terms of what you are talking about

However I’m just talking about local cities and munis not approving business licesnse for places they don’t want

It can be argued wal Mart is just as bad as a liquor store or porn shop to a lot of people and communities and just because there are enough pervs and drunks to keep them in business does not mean the community has to tolerate it or allow it to operate in their communities

It’s really that simple.

The gop needs to let venusula go because no ones buying it anymore.

If the crappy mcemployer wants to board up the shop and let it sit then they can just keep paying property taxes and blight fees while no income comes in and then get drug into court and sued when people start using it for a drug den.

Last edited by pittsflyer; 12-16-2019 at 01:12 AM..
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Old 12-16-2019, 01:15 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnojr View Post
What qualifies you to determine what these jobs "need"? Why a two-year degree? Why any degree? Why not a Masters?

The owners of those stores have, apparently / according to you, determined that they want a four-year degree for store managers, and they also apparently have no problem finding enough people who fit their requirements and who will accept and keep the jobs as well as perform adequately.

You're certainly free to open a competing store and set whatever requirements you believe are appropriate. But neither you nor anyone else has any business dictating to them what they do to operate their businesses.
The question is what strategies can a town or muni use to strip these places of their business licenses if the town is tired of seeing low wage employers setting up shop all the time?
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Old 12-16-2019, 01:21 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnojr View Post
Why don't you just step up with that "better business plan" and run these scumbag employers out of business? Why do you need government to force bad employers out of business? When are you going to act?
Because real estate prices are sky high, thats why. Insurance requirements to protect oneself from liabiltiy are sky high. It does not matter how good of an idea someone has, if they dont have the cash to buy into to the sky high real estate and absorb all the over head they are dead before they start.

Also alot of people dont believe in debt, debt is the biggest reason small buisness fails, debt to buy (or lease) said real estate.

I have penciled out multiple projects for buisness and they dont ever pencil out due to the reasons above.

It would take decades to recover the real estate costs alone.
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Old 12-16-2019, 01:25 AM
 
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Originally Posted by sheerbliss View Post
Nope. OP's plan is to increase wages by regulation, which is the opposite of competition, even if it means double-digit unemployment.



Most of my estate is willed to a nonprofit dedicated to challenging burdensome regulations that destroy jobs and businesses. Those regulations hit mom-and-pop operations and people at the lowest levels especially hard. I (mostly) buy pasture-raised animal products. I've replaced some of my lawn with native plants to help bee and butterfly populations. So yes, I'm living my values.

How about you? Are YOU paying $20 an hour for any services you hire? Boycotting products from countries with lax pollution control?
Boycotts are nonsense in a large dispersed population base, business owners love bringing that up in lieu of govt because they know its nonsense. it is very rare for a boycott to successfully drive a buisness into full blown bankruptcy and closing up shop. And if by some miracle boycotts actually worked business owners would be trying to figure out some way to make them illegal like criminalizing any demonstations in town or downtown centers, etc.

If a company fails its usually just because people dont want to go there, not becuase they are using human trafficing or exploiting desperate people, etc.

I would never pay $20/hr unless I knew everyone else had to as well so that by paying $20/hr I was not putting myself at a competitive disadvantage to the guy using human trafficed or desperate labor for peanuts.

All these arguments are nonsense, either everyone is required to pay some base line pay or no one is.

I started this discussion to come up with ideas and strategies that would enable a town to selectively target certain businesses they don't like and shut them down without running afoul of any state laws. I was reading that alot of states will abrogate any minimum wages that a city comes up with if its higher than state minimums, so there has to be another way that is swift and successful.

Maybe just start really invasive investigations into human trafficking (anyone utilizing low-end labor) and start running up their legal fees. Start getting really really granular with OSHA regs, the problem with these things is its really slow and allows the sleazy business owner to retaliate. the right strategy would have to be swift and brutal and put the person completely out of buisness quick with no recourse.

Start subsidizing air time to basicly smear them stating they are mcjob employers exploiting your family and consuming valuable real estate that could be used for GOOD jobs.
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Old 12-16-2019, 01:38 AM
 
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Originally Posted by sheerbliss View Post
Just how many productive employees have you seen living under bridges? Or walking to work (outside a big city) or starving? As for teenagers who work minimum wage jobs, see post #13 for Bureau of Labor statistics.

So far in our hypothetical paradise, we've got high unemployment, boarded-up restaurants and retailers, a city council catering to favored businesses, and higher taxes to pay for $20-an-hour sanitation workers, lunch ladies, preschool teachers, mowers, janitors, security guards, and everyone else doing low-skilled work that does, in fact, have to get done. Sounds swell.
Our city has a 1.6% homeless rate and the number of people a few checks away from homelessness is very likely much higher. This percentage also does not account for people couch surfing or living out of their car incognito.

The major issue is that we can never really know what the market rate is for these jobs because the people that work them are desperate and desperate people skew the market, because they would work for much much cheaper than a person in a better situation.

Just because some desperate person is willing to work for that wage does not mean thats "market" rate, it just means someone is being exploited.

Market rate is how much would someone take if they were properly housed, fed, and clothed with their own transportation, etc.
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Old 12-16-2019, 01:43 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OtterTrees View Post
I don't see a problem with "McJobs." I hate that phrase because it demeans the people who work whatever jobs you deem "McJobs." A more relevant topic would be why minimum qualifications for a lot of these jobs have become so stringent. For example, you do not need a 4 year degree to be a store manager at Target or Walmart; an associate's degree is sufficient. In college I worked up to asst. manager of a retail store at the mall and it is a job that can be done by any competent person with a 2 year degree or some training in basic accounting/bookeeping. I currently have an advanced degree because it's actually needed in my work but, if i want to get to the top level, the jobs all require a doctorate which ridiculous because a master's with 10 or more years of experience is sufficient. It eliminates a lot of great candidates. I am not paying for (in money or time) an unnecessary degree. I will just stay at my level and invest my money instead.
The term mcjob is meant to demean the employer and the job not the employee.

The reason that "employers" can get these people is because so many people have these degrees in hopes of not having to work these jobs in the first place. Because we have very little opportunity for actually GOOD jobs in the USA these people are now being forced to start entertaining these mcjobs, very likely grudgingly so. This is why the political climate is so contentious, people DONT want to work these jobs but yet they are being corraled into these jobs none the less due to economic factors (I view it as economic warfare) and they are pissed about it, and rightfully so.

People are trying to educate themselves out of these mcjobs and yet all the economy is producing is low-end service jobs that no one wants to do.
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Old 12-16-2019, 01:51 AM
 
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Originally Posted by jrkliny View Post
Normally I would say your criticism is on the harsh side, but not in this case. We either have some sort of troll or someone who is ignorant, makes up facts to suit their beliefs and has no analytical skills. Actually I think all of the above apply.

There are areas where zoning and laws do prohibit entry by most businesses. These are some of the areas in the US with severe poverty, no jobs and the lowest standards of living with most inhabitants on assistance. These areas are Indian reservations, where businesses cannot open due to "zoning" and other restrictions. A business cannot open on a reservation because they have no protection and their profits and investment can be taken at the whim of the tribe. The tribes have demanded independence from local, State or Federal laws and they suffer the consequences.
Not a troll, I have a friend who is running for a local city seat and we are all tired of the abundance of low-end service jobs that are being created. We are a wealthy state and city with highly educated people yet somehow we keep seeing these crap hole employers popping up and it's getting old. We are tired of seeing wal marts all over the place and the sad desperate people they "employ" and the MASSIVE number of homeless and crime.

It just keeps getting worse and the lack of opportunity is at the heart of the issue which is not helped by the endless number of crap jobs that keep popping up.

No matter how much you try to structure your life to avoid it, its like a scourge and just keeps getting worse, new taco bells new wal greens. No new fab shops or manufacturers, etc.

Maybe we can get control of this with aggressive zoning, I don't know but it needs to stop

People dont want to have to send there kids to who knows where (Germany, switzerland?) just to get a respectable position where there are not licking a customers boots living in a sea of abundant crap jobs that require you to put on a dog and pony show for peanuts, but rather good 6 figure or near 6 figure jobs that requires skills and education which are respected. And if people dont want to do what they are suppose to do then they will just be unemployed, we dont want to see a bunch of people given outs to just work at taco bell and live in their parents basements or under a bridge and smoke weed.

We realize that certian jobs like this have to exist, there has to be a local family owned burger shop a costco a couple grocery stores and THAT is where teenages with their first jobs work and these places be kept to an absolute minimum and be kept respectful. Maybe create labor laws that allow an employee to discharge a rude customer without fear of firing from their employer, etc.

Last edited by pittsflyer; 12-16-2019 at 01:59 AM..
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Old 12-16-2019, 04:58 AM
 
15,557 posts, read 8,377,035 times
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Originally Posted by sheerbliss View Post
Again, the minimum wage is $0. When people are earning nothing, which is the situation some people will end up in, 100% of their expenses will be paid by welfare. Assuming they have no friends or family to support them.

Are you not concerned about how people are going to get on the first rung of the economic ladder? Nobody is born with job skills worth $20 an hour. If you disagree, please feel free to pay that to your babysitter and tip your waitress, barista and pizza delivery person accordingly.
You clearly don’t know how welfare works. Able bodied adults don’t receive cash benefits. At best, they qualify for Medicaid and a few bucks per month in food stamps. Unless you are disabled, have young dependent children, or are elderly poor, nobody gets paid to sit around. Bill Clinton signed that policy into law in the mid 1990s. The T in TANF is TEMPORARY. The F is FAMILIES.

In my zip code, Dunkin Donuts pays $15 and a babysitter gets $20 cash under the table.
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Old 12-16-2019, 07:54 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsflyer View Post
Because real estate prices are sky high, thats why. Insurance requirements to protect oneself from liabiltiy are sky high. It does not matter how good of an idea someone has, if they dont have the cash to buy into to the sky high real estate and absorb all the over head they are dead before they start.
And yet you disrespect and name call all the small business owners that are open and operating.
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Old 12-16-2019, 08:04 AM
 
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Originally Posted by pittsflyer View Post
I started this discussion to come up with ideas and strategies that would enable a town to selectively target certain businesses they don't like and shut them down without running afoul of any state laws.
Why don't you keep working on opening your own business instead of demonizing other business owners?

And if you don't like the businesses and available real estate in your town, move.
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