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Your source is outdated (from 2013) and doesn’t even say what you said. Further, the article misses some obvious things, such as some graduates, as is the case with other disciplines, choose other careers after graduation. You also have to factor in that those that graduate with marginal scores and/or have personal issues that hinder employment (low performance, poor interviewing skills, etc). Talk to any hiring manager. Many candidates are just not acceptable for many reasons, regardless of the fact they have a degree.
Overall, when looking at various sources of information, the STEM career path continues to be an attractive field for good candidates.
Why don't you start a consulting business to tell them that? You could charge them, say, $5,000 each. You deliver a report titled, "You Need To Get On With It."
People (ie buisness owners) who shoot off at the mouth (about how they could replace you with a robot) but then said robot never arives is a very separate issue from what you are talking about. But I expect nothing less than pure intellectual dishonesty from some posters lol.
IF you, as a buisness owner, are going to put out some propaganda or make some statement to a group of people pushing for min wage of $15 hr about how you could replace them with robots ... but then the robots dont show up you become a joke and someone to not take seriously. Especially for someone like me who thinks more automation will have many positive effects.
Just off-shore the excess people. Let's start with government employees, shall we? There is no particular reason most government jobs need to be on-shore. They could be just as effective being off-shore, right?
We used to do this, it was called manifest destiny but with the age of nuclear weapons this kind of went away. Russia just did this recently but that was a very risky move but they really needed a warm water port so, this sort of thing almost never happens anymore.
You can go on google earth and see the contested boarders and they are very small in number. So just conquering more land to build cheap places to house govt workers is a nonstarter these days. Maybe when real estate gets really out of control people will be willing to risk nuclear war in order to get some more real estate ...
Millenials are already greatly disincentivized to have kids so many boomers wont have grand kids due to the economic situation which arises due to too many people. Unless said boomers have set them up so that they can absorb the ridiculously high prices due to a large population demanding things.
Data exists for both underemployed and for discouraged workers, in addition to straight unemployment.
Six alternative measures of labor underutilization have long been available on a monthly basis from the Current Population Survey (CPS) for the United States and are published in the Bureau of Labor Statistics' monthly Employment Situation news release.
Official unemployment is U-3 in the U-1 to U-6 range of alternative measures. It includes all jobless persons who are available to take a job and have actively sought work in the past four weeks. This metric has been thoroughly reviewed and validated since its inception in 1940.
The BLS also provides more narrowly (U-1 and U-2) or broadly (U-4 through U-6) defined measures for research purposes (mostly for academics).
U-1, persons unemployed 15 weeks or longer, as a percent of the civilian labor force;
U-2, job losers and persons who completed temporary jobs, as a percent of the civilian labor force;
U-3, total unemployed, as a percent of the civilian labor force (this is the definition used for the official unemployment rate);
U-4, total unemployed plus discouraged workers, as a percent of the civilian labor force plus discouraged workers;
U-5, total unemployed, plus discouraged workers, plus all other marginally attached workers, as a percent of the civilian labor force plus all marginally attached workers; and
U-6, total unemployed, plus all marginally attached workers, plus total employed part time for economic reasons, as a percent of the civilian labor force plus all marginally attached workers.
Discouraged workers that are part of U-4, U-5, and U-6 are persons who are not in the labor force, want and are available for work, and had looked for a job sometime in the prior 12 months. They are not counted as unemployed because they had not searched for work in the prior 4 weeks, for the specific reason that they believed no jobs were available for them.
The marginally attached that are part of U-5 and U-6 are a group that includes discouraged workers. The criteria for the marginally attached are the same as for discouraged workers, with the exception that any reason could have been cited for the lack of job search in the prior 4 weeks.
Persons employed part time for economic reasons, included as part of the U-6 measure, are those working less than 35 hours per week who want to work full time, are available to do so, and gave an economic reason (their hours had been cut back or they were unable to find a full-time job) for working part time. These individuals are sometimes referred to as involuntary part-time workers.
Generally, all six measures of labor underutilization move together over time, including across business cycles.
So what do the actual data show?
The benefits of economic growth are accruing for the less skilled or formerly jobless. The number of Americans who were marginally attached to the labor force—i.e., those able to work but who are not actively seeking employment—fell by 432,000 from last November to 1.2 million. That’s a whopping 27% year-over-year decline.
About 460,000 fewer workers are employed part-time for economic reasons than a year ago. More than 80% of folks who work part time do so for non-economic reasons, and the share has been increasing as the economy has gained strength. Second earners in two-income households have the luxury to work less when their spouses are earning more.
Underemployed, discouraged, marginally attached, and involuntarily part-time measures are lower than they have been in generations.
Does the data account for people with engineering or medical degrees (or the like) working a mcjob (starbucks, etc)? I am not refering to people working part time who want full time, I am refering to people working for 12/hr who should be making 60/hr doing much more complex work. THIS I dont believe is captured.
I mean I just went from underemployed to properly employed so we may have JUST hit an inflection point but for the last 5 years or so we had alot of underemployment and I suspect the situation has still not been corrected anywhere close to fully yet. This is where I think keysian economic should come into play, the govt should be picking up the slack to put STEM people into proper employment otherwise you end up with a situation where you will later have a massive shortage as people see engineers working in "starbucks" and think, hmm looks like a bad deal.
Your source is outdated (from 2013) and doesn’t even say what you said. Further, the article misses some obvious things, such as some graduates, as is the case with other disciplines, choose other careers after graduation. You also have to factor in that those that graduate with marginal scores and/or have personal issues that hinder employment (low performance, poor interviewing skills, etc). Talk to any hiring manager. Many candidates are just not acceptable for many reasons, regardless of the fact they have a degree.
Overall, when looking at various sources of information, the STEM career path continues to be an attractive field for good candidates.
Getting hard to get degrees and certifications should overcome social issues. Maybe they start off at a lower pay or lower level of engineering but no engineer should ever be working at "starbucks". At the very least fed govt should be picking these people up. NCEES/ABET is still respected and maintains high standards so as long as people are getting the proper certs in addition to the degrees they should not have to endure a mcjob.
Now if someone just has a degree from some no name school that barely can hold on to their ABET and this person has no EIT no PE etc I can see your point.
For a manager its hard to know what signals a competent person because some schools have grade inflation and some schools hammer students into the ground (I know as I am from the later). When I went to take the NCEES exams they were not bad becasue my school was a brutal nightmare where I think they practiced grade deflation lol.
I think it is the managers responsibility to know which schools are which and what certifications matter. Even the fed govt is using the PE exam as a litmus rather than trying to create a bunch of internal test and metrics becuase its a hellish exam and the pool that have it is small. Never the less the OPM is still a nightmare (ie actually getting a federal interview).
So its YOUR job to know which schools are which and what certs matter as a manager. Thats part of the reason they pay you the big bucks, not just to throw your hands in the air and say welp cant figure it out too many variables like different scores and gpa ... and this guy has a wierd hair cut and looks past me when thinking of an answer. Companies need to be more careful the managers the put in place.
Getting hard to get degrees and certifications should overcome social issues. Maybe they start off at a lower pay or lower level of engineering but no engineer should ever be working at "starbucks". At the very least fed govt should be picking these people up. NCEES/ABET is still respected and maintains high standards so as long as people are getting the proper certs in addition to the degrees they should not have to endure a mcjob.
Now if someone just has a degree from some no name school that barely can hold on to their ABET and this person has no EIT no PE etc I can see your point.
For a manager its hard to know what signals a competent person because some schools have grade inflation and some schools hammer students into the ground (I know as I am from the later). When I went to take the NCEES exams they were not bad becasue my school was a brutal nightmare where I think they practiced grade deflation lol.
I think it is the managers responsibility to know which schools are which and what certifications matter. Even the fed govt is using the PE exam as a litmus rather than trying to create a bunch of internal test and metrics becuase its a hellish exam and the pool that have it is small. Never the less the OPM is still a nightmare (ie actually getting a federal interview).
So its YOUR job to know which schools are which and what certs matter as a manager. Thats part of the reason they pay you the big bucks, not just to throw your hands in the air and say welp cant figure it out too many variables like different scores and gpa ... and this guy has a wierd hair cut and looks past me when thinking of an answer. Companies need to be more careful the managers the put in place.
Wrong again. If the person isn’t trust worthy, lacks communication skills, has a poor work record, can’t get along with others, etc, then degree/certification doesn’t matter.
Wrong again. If the person isn’t trust worthy, lacks communication skills, has a poor work record, can’t get along with others, etc, then degree/certification doesn’t matter.
In that case the govt jobs need to pick up the slack. Trust worthyness is a separate issue that I agree with you (such as if they have had a license suspended for fraud, been convicted of fraud, etc), thats pretty typical stuff that can be fereted out with a back ground check.
Most people not getting jobs or who are under employed is not from having felony fraud charges on their back ground checks, its from intangiables in the job interview such as "likeability", these are not good reasons for someone to have all that training and education and be working a mcjob
In that case the govt jobs need to pick up the slack. Trust worthyness is a separate issue that I agree with you (such as if they have had a license suspended for fraud, been convicted of fraud, etc), thats pretty typical stuff that can be fereted out with a back ground check.
Most people not getting jobs or who are under employed is not from having felony fraud charges on their back ground checks, its from intangiables in the job interview such as "likeability", these are not good reasons for someone to have all that training and education and be working a mcjob
Why does the government need to get involved. That means that all of us taxpayers are covering that cost. It is up to the candidate to improve themselves or make the necessary changes in their career path.
So its YOUR job to know which schools are which and what certs matter as a manager.
Meh, you put way too much importance on which school and what grades. Some of the smartest most productive folks I've worked with had unimpressive academic credentials, and some of the most worthless came from heavy hitter colleges. Degrees and certs are a starting point for hiring entry level, but not to the point you're trying to weigh schools to adjust grades against other schools. I'd rather be given a few hours with someone and a white board to work/discuss some problems than waste time trying to figure out whether their school had grade inflation.
Best way to hire good people is to know who they are before they come in the door, a good hiring manager knows how to poach good folks from other companies.
I'd go out on a limb and say pitts wants the government to help him get the job he thinks he deserves but can't get himself.
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