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Old 12-24-2019, 04:52 PM
 
9,608 posts, read 4,215,898 times
Reputation: 1870

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HJ99 View Post
I think going interest rate of 30% on all loans be about right. Get out of this debt based economy silliness. You want some consumer item, you save up and pay cash on the barrelhead. Right now our economy is based on selling ever more stuff to ever more people on the easy payment plan. Trouble is you eventually run out of people that arent up to their eyeballs in debt. Loans have a place, but not as the basis of an economy.



Either that or you disallow any discharge of debt, much like current student debt. Hold those speculators' feet to the fire for their lifetime. Gamble with borrowed money at your own peril. Cause you cant just write it off. Put em in debtors' prison. ARe there no prisons, are there no workhouses? Our current president would be in debtors' prison right now.
Modern and successful 1st world countries rely on consumer spending to support of much of its national productivity. And debt enhances that. It is up to the individual to gauge how much debt they can manage. And if they over do it they can always go BK. And it is up to the lender to gauge how much risk they take with their loans.
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Old 12-24-2019, 05:15 PM
 
3,645 posts, read 1,003,759 times
Reputation: 6373
Quote:
Originally Posted by HJ99 View Post
I think going interest rate of 30% on all loans be about right. Get out of this debt based economy silliness. You want some consumer item, you save up and pay cash on the barrelhead. Right now our economy is based on selling ever more stuff to ever more people on the easy payment plan. Trouble is you eventually run out of people that arent up to their eyeballs in debt. Loans have a place, but not as the basis of an economy.



Either that or you disallow any discharge of debt, much like current student debt. Hold those speculators' feet to the fire for their lifetime. Gamble with borrowed money at your own peril. Cause you cant just write it off. Put em in debtors' prison. ARe there no prisons, are there no workhouses? Our current president would be in debtors' prison right now.
You accidentally posted this in the Economics forum. Instead, it should be in the creative WRITING forum, as it has nothing to do with actual, you know, real economics.

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Old 12-24-2019, 05:20 PM
 
9,608 posts, read 4,215,898 times
Reputation: 1870
Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalExpectations View Post
You accidentally posted this in the Economics forum. Instead, it should be in the creative WRITING forum, as it has nothing to do with actual, you know, real economics.
Libertarians and gold bugs are certainly entitled to their opinions here.
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Old 12-24-2019, 05:33 PM
 
Location: Orange County, CA
2,279 posts, read 2,058,688 times
Reputation: 1099
Quote:
Originally Posted by heart84 View Post
Janet Yellen - I don't believe the next financial crisis will be "in our lifetimes." LOL. As the Fed dumps around $100 billion DAILY now to stem the run on the repo markets as liquidity dries up......And don't forget the renewed $60 billion per month in treasury purchases on top of that.
Stealth QE by the FED in all but name
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Old 12-24-2019, 05:59 PM
 
9,608 posts, read 4,215,898 times
Reputation: 1870
https://old.reddit.com/r/funny/comme...ith_the_times/

lol
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Old 12-24-2019, 06:16 PM
 
858 posts, read 518,795 times
Reputation: 1351
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
IMO your view is hyperbole.

All capitalism has some central controls, monetary policies.

Our prodigy will be here in 100 years still making most of these same comments.
We don't have real capitalism anymore. We have socialism for the rich instead. Real capitalism requires both inflation and deflation cycles. Has the FED permanently preempted these natural cycles? That is the question. I think the answer is NO. For every economic expansion there is an equal and opposite contraction.

Either the FED successfully circumvented deflation and depression by flooding the markets with money through QE and its esoteric offshoots; or they manufactured a false bottom with all their trickery. We needed to DEFLATE THE DEBT BUBBLE since 2001. The FED has taken the opposite path. The FED was created in 1913 with one (REAL) charge: to avoid depressions, deflations, at all costs. Why? Because depressions come regulary, like clockwork.

Now, do we decry the FED for trying to do their job, to eliminate depressions? No. Do we decry their lack of wisdom in trying to eliminate a natural and necessary part of the economic process? Yes, we do. By choosing to protect debt in 2001 instead of destroy it, the FED has said that they do not think DEBT hinders economic growth. I think it does. I think the job of the DEFLATION is to reduce debt by raising interest rates -- to decrease debt, to strengthen the local currency, and to reward the SAVING CULTURE in the same/reverse way the Day-Cycle rewards the SPECULATION CULTURE. Both cultures are necessary and vital to the life of the society.

FED repression on interest rates punishes savers, punishes the local currency, and multiplies debt -- it is an insane policy in my mind, and completely fails to understand the silver lining of painful DEFLATION seasons.

Now we must live with low or even negative interest rates for the rest of time, because of this FED decision? That is the New Normal? We have painted ourselves into an untenable corner.

I was FOR the FED's Quantative Tightening; and I am a STRONG DOLLAR man. Not perpetually. But until we have reduced our debt and recovered our moral bearing.

The FED has apparently lost its nerve again. The FED has a New Plan; or is it an Old Plan?
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/11/b...ury-bills.html

Good Luck
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Old 12-24-2019, 06:27 PM
 
9,608 posts, read 4,215,898 times
Reputation: 1870
Quote:
Originally Posted by C2BP View Post
We don't have real capitalism anymore. We have socialism for the rich instead. Real capitalism requires both inflation and deflation cycles. Has the FED permanently preempted these natural cycles? That is the question. I think the answer is NO. For every economic expansion there is an equal and opposite contraction.

Either the FED successfully circumvented deflation and depression by flooding the markets with money through QE and its esoteric offshoots; or they manufactured a false bottom with all their trickery. We needed to DEFLATE THE DEBT BUBBLE since 2001. The FED has taken the opposite path. The FED was created in 1913 with one (REAL) charge: to avoid depressions, deflations, at all costs. Why? Because depressions come regulary, like clockwork.

Now, do we decry the FED for trying to do their job, to eliminate depressions? No. Do we decry their lack of wisdom in trying to eliminate a natural and necessary part of the economic process? Yes, we do. By choosing to protect debt in 2001 instead of destroy it, the FED has said that they do not think DEBT hinders economic growth. I think it does. I think the job of the DEFLATION is to reduce debt by raising interest rates -- to decrease debt, to strengthen the local currency, and to reward the SAVING CULTURE in the same/reverse way the Day-Cycle rewards the SPECULATION CULTURE. Both cultures are necessary and vital to the life of the society.

FED repression on interest rates punishes savers, punishes the local currency, and multiplies debt -- it is an insane policy in my mind, and completely fails to understand the silver lining of painful DEFLATION seasons.

Now we must live with low or even negative interest rates for the rest of time, because of this FED decision? That is the New Normal? We have painted ourselves into an untenable corner.

I was FOR the FED's Quantative Tightening; and I am a STRONG DOLLAR man. Not perpetually. But until we have reduced our debt and recovered our moral bearing.

The FED has apparently lost its nerve again. The FED has a New Plan; or is it an Old Plan?
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/11/b...ury-bills.html

Good Luck
Sure we still have capitalism. But we also have central monetary policy that benefits the rich, as you allude to above.

This policy has stimulated equity inflation. It makes passive investment possibly more profitable than new business creation, old business expansion or job creation. It has done little to improve on the wages or standard of living of the middle class worker.

IMO that needs remedy. But not through your proposed austerity or massive debt deflation.
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Old 12-24-2019, 10:52 PM
 
Location: Orange County, CA
2,279 posts, read 2,058,688 times
Reputation: 1099
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
Our kids and grand kids won't be able to invest in bonds or buy a house?
Millenials certainly aren't buying houses or investing in stocks/bonds to the same degree than the Boomers have.

Not even close.
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Old 12-24-2019, 11:26 PM
 
7,656 posts, read 3,367,239 times
Reputation: 4889
Quote:
Originally Posted by HJ99 View Post
I think going interest rate of 30% on all loans be about right. Get out of this debt based economy silliness. You want some consumer item, you save up and pay cash on the barrelhead. Right now our economy is based on selling ever more stuff to ever more people on the easy payment plan. Trouble is you eventually run out of people that arent up to their eyeballs in debt. Loans have a place, but not as the basis of an economy.



Either that or you disallow any discharge of debt, much like current student debt. Hold those speculators' feet to the fire for their lifetime. Gamble with borrowed money at your own peril. Cause you cant just write it off. Put em in debtors' prison. ARe there no prisons, are there no workhouses? Our current president would be in debtors' prison right now.
The later would likely be unconstitutional and lead to dramaticly increased violence. Imagine trying to force tens of millions into work houses without a fight?
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Old 12-25-2019, 08:43 AM
 
1,998 posts, read 491,139 times
Reputation: 3060
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lycanmaster View Post
Stealth QE by the FED in all but name
Correct. A simple look at the Fed's balance sheet expansion over the past 3 months or so shows a straight line up on their own website. So they can refuse to call their rapid balance sheet expansion "QE" but it is in fact QE lol. 99% of the public has no clue what is going on behind the curtain because the major media outlets don't talk about any of this stuff.
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