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Old 12-22-2019, 02:14 PM
 
513 posts, read 289,981 times
Reputation: 669

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Tax cuts for corporations and the wealthy - 7 charts show Trump’s tax cuts still haven't been the economic 'rocket fuel' he promised, 2 years after the fact
https://markets.businessinsider.com/...-12-1028780773

Some excerpts from the article

“Two years ago, President Trump accomplished his signature legislative achievement: the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act.

The law was the biggest overhaul to the nation's tax code in three decades, and the president pitched it as "rocket fuel" for the American economy. It permanently slashed the corporate tax rate to 21% from 35% while also providing temporary benefits for individuals and their families.

Critics argued it was a windfall for massive corporations at the expense of the middle class. Meanwhile, supporters of the tax cuts contended it would unleash an economic bonanza. Businesses would invest in their operations, they said, resulting in improved worker productivity and higher wages.”

Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin, among others, said the law would juice the nation's gross domestic product to 3% (or more, as Trump said 6%) and soon pay for itself and spread prosperity.

- End article excerpts

After reading the article, some questions:

Other then corporate stock buybacks after the cuts (last chart shown), is there any statistical significance after the tax cuts compared to before them in regards to job creation, middle class benefit etc?

As was promised by the wealthy, did the tax cuts for corporations truly help the middle class and create more jobs compared to before the tax cuts?

If the tax cuts did not significantly help the middle class and did not significantly create more jobs, who did the tax cuts benefit?

Statistically, throughout time, despite what it is spun as, who benefits from tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations?

Are taxes "the devil" or are they a reasonably necessary thing to ensure we have things like the fire department, police, safe drinking water, safe food, schools, safe public roads etc?

If those things are a reasonably necessary thing for a safe and healthy society and a brighter future for our kids, is it understandable that those things cost money and need to be paid for?

If those reasonable things cost money, should we cut the tax burden on the strongest (the wealthy and corporations) and instead increase it on the poor and middle class?

If we just cut taxes across the board, especially for the strongest/wealthiest, and no one picks up the tab, will those necessary things our society enjoys and benefits from suffer/be decreased?

Last edited by txbullsfan; 12-22-2019 at 02:59 PM..
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Old 12-22-2019, 06:34 PM
 
3,008 posts, read 1,968,807 times
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Many large companies made major pension contributions within 8.5 months to take advantage of the rate differential between 35 and 21 percent. So that benefits Americans holding these pensions that were underfunded.

Lower federal corporate taxes rates overall obviously means more profit passed on to shareholders. Federal corporate tax is double taxation and exists because of timing differences of when the recipient may be taxed, if ever. Many of these shareholders use tax deferred or tax exempt accounts , so they’re getting more money today to grow for their future. That seems like a win for middle class Americans investment accounts, college funds, ect.

162m changes put caps on the deductibility of executive compensation. I know many around these parts hate the c suite, so at least you can see companies hurt slightly by the decision to pay them by having a permanent tax difference.

There was a one time deemed repatriation of foreign earnings under 965. Companies have now been assessed the transition tax and are free to bring this money that was previously permanently reinvested overseas and tax deferred, back here if their capital structure and capital needs require it. Many companies have changed their apb 23 assertions on a go forward basis as well so they will continue to leave these foreign earnings here domestically. Many companies are dividend planning and restructuring their entire treasury and international structure to facilitate bringing this money back from the foreign jurisdictions.



Tax doesn’t wag the dog. So, if one knew so little about business that they think a reduction in a expense (federal income tax), results in some bonanza of hiring and building, I don’t know what to tell you. But...as I outlined, tons of middle class people benefit in their investment accounts. If they’re in the game. I think all of my retirement accounts are up over 20% this year alone.

Last edited by Thatsright19; 12-22-2019 at 06:47 PM..
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Old 12-22-2019, 07:02 PM
 
4,934 posts, read 3,013,803 times
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The investment market is heavily tilted toward the high end (and so some extent people like me with decades of retirement savings). A tiny portion accrued to the middle class and basically none to the lower end, where the positives would be less than inflation.

And now the nation has substantially more debt. Give the keys to a fool...
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Old 12-22-2019, 07:15 PM
 
437 posts, read 64,472 times
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The fact that the claimed benefits of tax cut to make rich richer didnt work surprises you because???? Nobody believed their reasoning when they did it. It was just payback to the billionaires for their donations. Tax the poor to benefit the wealthy, its the Republican mantra. In other words, privatize the profits, socialize the losses.
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Old 12-22-2019, 07:39 PM
 
3,008 posts, read 1,968,807 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HJ99 View Post
The fact that the claimed benefits of tax cut to make rich richer didnt work surprises you because???? Nobody believed their reasoning when they did it. It was just payback to the billionaires for their donations. Tax the poor to benefit the wealthy, its the Republican mantra. In other words, privatize the profits, socialize the losses.

These topics always bring out the crazies with their one liner slogans.

It’s tough to come up with a federal income tax cut for the lower brackets because they don’t pay any federal income tax. Their federal income tax bill is already cut to zero and in some cases beyond zero with refundable credits. Welcome to the reason, tax cuts go to the...”rich”. With what I said in mind, it’s also hard to believe your “tax the poor to benefit the wealthy” line.

But hey, you’ve got a one liner. Privatize the profits! Socialize the losses!!
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Old 12-23-2019, 04:28 AM
 
450 posts, read 407,834 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatsright19 View Post
These topics always bring out the crazies with their one liner slogans.

It’s tough to come up with a federal income tax cut for the lower brackets because they don’t pay any federal income tax. Their federal income tax bill is already cut to zero and in some cases beyond zero with refundable credits. Welcome to the reason, tax cuts go to the...”rich”. With what I said in mind, it’s also hard to believe your “tax the poor to benefit the wealthy” line.

But hey, you’ve got a one liner. Privatize the profits! Socialize the losses!!

I really wish the crazies would take a moment and actually look at how their favorite "socialist democracies" actually work their tax systems.

I wonder if they realized corporate taxes are much lower than ours (generally 9-13%) and those wonderful programs are funded by the citizens (and EVERYONE pays in).

And don't get me started on how much Europe absolutely LOVES corporate conglomerates..... somehow foreign based mega-companies who don't pay any US corporate tax is the new "ideal".

The fact that cutting the corporate tax has made US-based companies more competitive in the world economy should be of great joy. Right Bernie-bots???
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Old 12-23-2019, 04:32 AM
 
75,654 posts, read 75,072,635 times
Reputation: 52956
there was a tax slight of hand here .

the tax savings the corporations got translated to higher share prices since the savings went right to the bottom line .

but a portion of those higher share prices now had more taxes passed on to investors as part of their own income taxes . so for investors it was two steps forward and one step back
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Old 12-23-2019, 05:53 AM
 
Location: FW, Indiander
972 posts, read 1,372,995 times
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Blah blah tax cuts for the "wealthy". I made about 30K last year and I got a tax cut compared to 2017. If not for the stupid healthcare mandate(which is over starting New Year's Day) my tax return check would have been more.

The poor does not pay federal taxes; of course they don't benefit.

Oh and the tax cuts while not a complete antidote, aren't the real problem. Federal Reserve not cutting interest rates, gov't spending are.

Last edited by Marv95; 12-23-2019 at 06:27 AM..
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Old 12-23-2019, 02:18 PM
 
7,656 posts, read 3,367,239 times
Reputation: 4889
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatsright19 View Post
Many large companies made major pension contributions within 8.5 months to take advantage of the rate differential between 35 and 21 percent. So that benefits Americans holding these pensions that were underfunded.

Lower federal corporate taxes rates overall obviously means more profit passed on to shareholders. Federal corporate tax is double taxation and exists because of timing differences of when the recipient may be taxed, if ever. Many of these shareholders use tax deferred or tax exempt accounts , so they’re getting more money today to grow for their future. That seems like a win for middle class Americans investment accounts, college funds, ect.

162m changes put caps on the deductibility of executive compensation. I know many around these parts hate the c suite, so at least you can see companies hurt slightly by the decision to pay them by having a permanent tax difference.

There was a one time deemed repatriation of foreign earnings under 965. Companies have now been assessed the transition tax and are free to bring this money that was previously permanently reinvested overseas and tax deferred, back here if their capital structure and capital needs require it. Many companies have changed their apb 23 assertions on a go forward basis as well so they will continue to leave these foreign earnings here domestically. Many companies are dividend planning and restructuring their entire treasury and international structure to facilitate bringing this money back from the foreign jurisdictions.



Tax doesn’t wag the dog. So, if one knew so little about business that they think a reduction in a expense (federal income tax), results in some bonanza of hiring and building, I don’t know what to tell you. But...as I outlined, tons of middle class people benefit in their investment accounts. If they’re in the game. I think all of my retirement accounts are up over 20% this year alone.
Low taxes dont wag the dog but insanely high taxes with write offs do. We used to have a 90% tax rate for revenue over a certian amount BUT if you reinvested you got a write off. But companies dont want to reinvest so they lobby against that. What exactly do they plan to do with all this idol capital against the american people?

Its unnatural to just sit on this much money unless there is some evil brewing (enslave the nation through a complex economic scheme, open warfare against the civilian population? Starve eveyone out.

There is an end game because this is not normal. and its not one thats good for the average joe.
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Old 12-23-2019, 02:21 PM
 
7,656 posts, read 3,367,239 times
Reputation: 4889
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharleyMcGarley View Post
I really wish the crazies would take a moment and actually look at how their favorite "socialist democracies" actually work their tax systems.

I wonder if they realized corporate taxes are much lower than ours (generally 9-13%) and those wonderful programs are funded by the citizens (and EVERYONE pays in).

And don't get me started on how much Europe absolutely LOVES corporate conglomerates..... somehow foreign based mega-companies who don't pay any US corporate tax is the new "ideal".

The fact that cutting the corporate tax has made US-based companies more competitive in the world economy should be of great joy. Right Bernie-bots???
Yes but those other countries have powerful unions, lay offs are rare and mcjobs are not as prolific. Those are non-trivial issues.

When everyone is fearful of lay offs constantly and good jobs are rare compared to mcjobs thats a very powerful political motivator.
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