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Old 01-02-2020, 10:11 AM
 
2,162 posts, read 996,465 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_n_Tenn View Post
Balanced budget amendment is the only way.
That would be a disaster at some point, when more money was required for natural disaster, war, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_n_Tenn View Post
States do it. We have success to measure, we also have failure for reference. Perfect.

What's lacking is fiscal discipline. It doesn't take a genius to put the government on an allowance. Need more money? sell bonds, duh.
States require balanced budgets for operating budgets, but can borrow for capital expenditures for roads, buildings etc.
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Old 01-02-2020, 10:15 AM
 
27,099 posts, read 29,573,476 times
Reputation: 26503
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtab4994 View Post
Republicans are only fiscal conservatives when they're in the Opposition. Democrats are never fiscal conservatives.

So where does that leave us? The permanent bureaucracy is built by and for fiscal lunacy, and if you try to cut any part of the budget you're painted as being a hater of children, or minorities, or veterans, or national defense, or dozens of other special interests.

Good luck to anyone who cares to slice off one of the Hydra's heads.
^^^Finally, someone who gets it.
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Old 01-02-2020, 10:18 AM
 
27,099 posts, read 29,573,476 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohio_peasant View Post
To be a "fiscal conservative" means to attempt to improve the future, at the expense of grievous setback and suffering in the present. And whereas the future improvement is speculative and unclear, the present sacrifices are very clear. Not an attractive deal. And not something that most people would countenance, regardless of political stance.
This is the crux of why the U.S. (and many other Western countries) is headed for a train wreck that will make 2008 look like a walk in the park.

I don't know why I bother saying it. The people who get it already see it and don't need to be told. And the people who need to hear it the most will never listen.
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Old 01-02-2020, 10:21 AM
 
27,099 posts, read 29,573,476 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artillery77 View Post
Any system will fail, in ways we both can and cannot see. It's only the ability to self-correct that keeps an economy from destroying itself.

The sad fate of America will be when it one day realizes that everyone else realizes that we are all powerless to the Fed. Not sure who fired first, but between government backed entities and central banks....we're all being forced to centralize....and it's scary.
Yes, I agree with all of that.

Centralization of power is the proposed answer to every crisis we have. I don't think that's an accident.
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Old 01-02-2020, 10:26 AM
 
27,099 posts, read 29,573,476 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by homelessinseattle View Post
It just didn't occur to me that you thought we might run into some kind of fiscal disaster.
I've thought it for a long time. You can't continually increase debt as a % of GDP without a day of reckoning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by homelessinseattle View Post
Modern Monetary Theory seems to be working. Australia hasn't had a recession in 27 years. They just throw more money out there when the economy lags and the US says we can do it too.
Australia runs balanced budgets/surpluses in good times. They have a low debt burden. We can do it, too, but we won't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by homelessinseattle View Post
I dont think it's right but its up to the banksters that seem to be running the show.
Yes, absolutely. The global banking cartel has been running the show for much longer than people realize. It's been obvious for the last decade, but it goes back much further. Heck, my grandfather talked about the banksters (didn't use that word) back in the 1950s and 1960s.
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Old 01-02-2020, 10:29 AM
 
27,099 posts, read 29,573,476 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
Keep in mind I'm relatively conservative. Keynes, and I'm pretty sure I read and or studied every word the guy ever published about economics, didn't support the idea of endless deficits, nor huge ongoing national debt.
No he didn't. But you missed my point. He was an economist, but lived in the world of theory, not how humans actually behave. Politicians (and humans more generally) want to avoid making the hard decisions and in many places will run up deficits in good times and bad. That's what's happened in the U.S. and a number of other countries (Japan, Greece, France, Italy...just to name a few).
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Old 01-02-2020, 10:39 AM
 
849 posts, read 508,938 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
This is the crux of why the U.S. (and many other Western countries) is headed for a train wreck that will make 2008 look like a walk in the park.

I don't know why I bother saying it. The people who get it already see it and don't need to be told. And the people who need to hear it the most will never listen.
Absolutely. It's easier and less scary to stick your head in the sand. There is a sort of cognitive dissonance that happens if you try to talk to these folks. Their brains won't allow any foreign information that would upset the apple cart of their happy little fantasy that all is well. It's a shame, because those are the folks who will be the least prepared when the **** hits the fan.
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Old 01-02-2020, 12:54 PM
 
Location: Florida/Tennessee
4,267 posts, read 4,729,911 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRM20 View Post
That would be a disaster at some point, when more money was required for natural disaster, war, etc.

Again... we have war bonds, why not disaster bonds? This can be done.... and of course a national emergency is totally a different situation.



States require balanced budgets for operating budgets, but can borrow for capital expenditures for roads, buildings etc.
\

Borrowing is fine, saving is better.

It's the only way
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Old 01-02-2020, 01:03 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
14,335 posts, read 4,893,473 times
Reputation: 11379
Right here. Always have been one. And I'm not happy with Trump's further run-up on the debt.
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Old 01-02-2020, 01:12 PM
 
5,911 posts, read 9,119,145 times
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I'm a fiscal conservative and I'm also a Democrat because I think corporate welfare is a much bigger problem than individual welfare.

I don't mind having a social safety net - my gripe is people get caught in the net because one dollar over some set limit and the benefits *poof* disappear. Help needs to be on a sliding scale and more realistic.

Quote:
while at the same time increasing the benefits (freebies) to those who pay little or nothing
I hope someone will take a minute to list the corporations that pay zero taxes. If possible dig up the subsidies and overpayments.

As for medicare costs it was GWB who included the requirement that medicare not negotiate drug prices. Huge giveaway to big pharma. Now let's talk about agricultural subsidies and who benefits. How about overpriced military contracts.
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