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So how much does Walmart pay versus Mom&Pop stores?
I worked in a couple when young, they paid exactly min wage. There was no way Walmart was paying less, and in fact I'm pretty sure Walmart pays well above natl min wage.
That depends, hardware stores and auto parts stores used to be pay much better than they do now. Variety stores as they used to be called were traditionally low paying. Whether the employer exploits their advantage to suppress wages or not is up to them but it's undeniable that when there is only one buyer of labor employees lose all bargaining power. Fast food restaurants frequently exercise that same power by having 'no poach agreements'.
Maybe that steadier hand was due to the pot that Obummer was smoking. That, coupled with the fact that being a "Community Organizer" is not generally considered to be a high pressure job.
Chas863, I suppose a community organizer jobs are no less demanding and high pressure than the tasks of U.S. Congressional representatives (if they’re seriously earnest to properly perform their duties. Respectfully, Supposn
Economic theory is clear: raising the minimum wage has the following effects:
The total number of low-end jobs decreases, as the minimum wage is above the market clearing wage.
Many formerly employed low-end employees lose their jobs.
Many hope-to-be employed low-end employees enter the job market for the now-higher wage only to find no one will hire them.
Those low-end employees who keep their jobs will have larger paychecks.
Prices at the margin go up
We'll get to see how much of the above actually happens in the real world.
Rational Expectations, to the extent of its purchasing power, the minimum wage rate reduces the numbers and extents of poverty among the working poor. The federal minimum wage rate has always been of net economic benefit to our nation. Respectfully, Supposn
That depends, hardware stores and auto parts stores used to be pay much better than they do now.
Not in my experience. My first two jobs (late 80s) were in a Mom&Pop hardware store and Mom&Pop pharmacy, both paid exactly minimum wage with zero benefits.
This notion that Walmart is going to somehow pay less than any stores it puts out of business is laughable.
Low-wage labor does not have equivalent leverage to capitalist employers, so there is not fair wage negotiation possible. Laborers have to take whatever they can get or they go hungry and homeless; employers just work their other employees a little harder until they find someone willing to play ball.
Not having equivalent leverage is not the same thing as it not being a mutually agreed upon labor agreement. If someone walks into Walmart looking for a job, gets told they will pay them $10/hour in exchange for their labor, agrees to this and dons the blue shirt, it's an mutually agreed upon labor agreement.
Someone in a mutually agreed deal having more leverage doesn't magically make it not agreed upon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMiller
Your counterexamples are actually further evidence of my argument. None of them were situations where people picked what they wanted to spend money on, but rather "sorry you're a lower-class turd-person so take your gruel and shanty and burlap t-shirt and like it". That's why home prices are spinning out of control, there's a wealthy elite bidding up the prices to keep the poors out. There's no free market here, there's a monetarily-enforced class system.
This is false. Someone shopping for a home in a hot housing market that is forced to settle for something smaller than they want is exactly the same as your silly notions about labor. They want something better, it's not possible given their budget, yet they of their own free will choose to purchase a smaller house instead of renting or moving farther outside the city center. Your logic says they did not enter a mutually agreed upon home purchase because they sellers had more leverage and the buyers didn't have a choice despite wanting something more.
You either don't know the definition of "mutual" or "agreement" when you support these absurd claims.
Not in my experience. My first two jobs (late 80s) were in a Mom&Pop hardware store and Mom&Pop pharmacy, both paid exactly minimum wage with zero benefits.
This notion that Walmart is going to somehow pay less than any stores it puts out of business is laughable.
I'm not sure why it's "laughable" and I don't think it always happens, but it has. My son worked for Safeway right after he graduated from high school, within a few years he was making $16 an hour. Walmart opened a superstore a few blocks away and the union my son belonged to negotiated a new contract with the time in grade wage for his job (night time stocker) was reduced from $16 to $10 for new employees - they did this to avoid closing down the store altogether. His wages didn't drop, they were frozen but his hours were cut from 30 a week to 20 so that the store could avoid paying benefits. So in that case Walmart successfully forced the competition to cut wages to what they were paying their employees. I don't know how much you know about Safeway stores but 'back in the day' those jobs paid the rent and provided employees with a living wage and a pension.
Monopsonies exercising their buying power can (and does) pressure suppliers to lower the price of their products to the point where the supplier has to cut wages or lay off employees. And it's not just Walmart or Amazon, fast food stores and tech companies engage in "no poach agreements" with their competitors to ensure that employees can't leave and find a better paying job with another employer.
Oh God... I zone out the moment someone uses "gun to the head" analogies.
Minimum wage is the only tool government has to put upward pressure on wages, short of socialist-style interventions. That's why we need to raise it faster that we currently have been. It should be done every 7-10 years, we are now overdue.
We live in a monetary world in which the lords of finance (Fed) intend the money supply to inflate by 2% per year.
Why is it such a tragedy then, to increase pressure on wages? How is it sound economic policy to encourage inflation in the cost of all goods, but demand that wages NEVER rise? In what world is it fair to increase low-end workers' costs 2% per year and never give them a corresponding raise?
People against raising the minimum wage act like we are on a gold standard and the money supply does not continuously inflate!
The minimum wage was often increased every year or two since it was implemented in 1938, but evidently this is no longer possible because it will destroy the economy.
Economic theory is clear: raising the minimum wage has the following effects:
The total number of low-end jobs decreases, as the minimum wage is above the market clearing wage.
Many formerly employed low-end employees lose their jobs.
Many hope-to-be employed low-end employees enter the job market for the now-higher wage only to find no one will hire them.
Those low-end employees who keep their jobs will have larger paychecks.
Prices at the margin go up
We'll get to see how much of the above actually happens in the real world.
Rational Expectations:
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57
... Why is it such a tragedy then, to increase pressure on wages? How is it sound economic policy to encourage inflation in the cost of all goods, but demand that wages NEVER rise?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supposn
Minimum wage, a character issue. That's the essence of personal and political opposition to the FMW rate. …
Economic theory is clear: raising the minimum wage has the following effects:
The total number of low-end jobs decreases, as the minimum wage is above the market clearing wage.
Many formerly employed low-end employees lose their jobs.
Many hope-to-be employed low-end employees enter the job market for the now-higher wage only to find no one will hire them.
Those low-end employees who keep their jobs will have larger paychecks.
Prices at the margin go up
We'll get to see how much of the above actually happens in the real world.
What does your "theory" tell you about the end of tariffs?
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