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Old 12-30-2019, 12:20 PM
 
447 posts, read 190,252 times
Reputation: 1201

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Quote:
Originally Posted by aridon View Post
Your source is not for "fast food workers" and the average of $25/hr does not mean everyone makes that <sigh>. Not only are you dishonest, you are ignorant.

Feel free for the last word, I won't engage you further.
I'm not surprised that you're leaving. You haven't been able to answer any of my questions so far which reflects rather poorly on YOUR logic, not mine.
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Old 12-30-2019, 12:26 PM
 
447 posts, read 190,252 times
Reputation: 1201
Quote:
Originally Posted by aridon
Your source is not for "fast food workers" and the average of $25/hr does not mean everyone makes that <sigh>.
You're right. Not everyone makes $25/hour. Some make even more. But please tell us what gave you the clue to figure that out? I'll bet it was the word "average" that I put in there. You're a clever one to figure that out.
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Old 12-30-2019, 03:17 PM
 
7,667 posts, read 3,411,024 times
Reputation: 4942
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chas863 View Post
You seem to think that the economic laws of supply and demand have been repealed. They haven't. If prices and conditions in a city are such that a higher wage is needed to attract minimum wage workers, there is nothing stopping the employer from paying higher wages to attract those workers. Likewise, if workers aren't happy with the wages being offered, they are free to take their labor to someone who will pay them what they are really worth.

History has shown us that raising the minimum wage is simply an inflationary action that pushes everyone's wages higher and consequently the prices on everything go up too. So, in a short time, we're right back where we started except with higher numbers attached to everything. The minimum wage workers will still be minimum wage workers unless or until they acquire additional skills that make them more valuable to an employer.
That’s a good point, the problem is the only remedy to the population explosion is a world war. The reason min wage does not work is there are to many people demanding scarce resources.

It’s not that the labor suddenly becomes worth less because there are more people but rather more people with dollars are chasing more stuff. It’s kind of a catch 22 in a warless world.
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Old 12-30-2019, 04:17 PM
 
225 posts, read 75,488 times
Reputation: 1142
The minimum wage is ZERO . . . . . . A business is not required to hire anyone.
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Old 12-30-2019, 07:04 PM
 
6,851 posts, read 1,857,231 times
Reputation: 5788
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teak View Post
Totally bogus analysis.

Obama was president in 2013. The Great Obama Recession was in session.
Trump is president now. The Great Trump Recovery is in full swing.

Now, that's a much better analysis.
I love these people who use one economic indicator to prove their theory on how a policy works. It just shows how ignorant they are.
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Old 12-30-2019, 10:23 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
2,828 posts, read 1,828,625 times
Reputation: 1794
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chas863 View Post
Why should we mandate a minimum wage when the cost of living varies so greatly from state to state and even from city to city within some states?

Minimum wages were never intended to be a "living wage" for a family... or even for an individual. Nevertheless, it is instructive to do some comparisons.

Would you rather be making $13/hour in California where the cost of a 1 BR apartment could be $3,000 per month (or HIGHER),

or would you rather be making $7.25/hour in Tennessee where a 1 BR apartment might cost you $700 per month?
Min wage was never intended for anyone not teenagers, adults, part time workers it was designed as the lowest wage a business can pay. Business owners want people to believe it is only for teenagers so they can justify paying low wages. I would rather not make $13 hour in California or $7.25 in Tennessee because you can not live on those wages in either of those places.
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Old 12-31-2019, 03:02 AM
 
7,667 posts, read 3,411,024 times
Reputation: 4942
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Purlin View Post
The minimum wage is ZERO . . . . . . A business is not required to hire anyone.
And the people are not required to issue you a buisness license either.
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Old 12-31-2019, 03:35 AM
 
7,427 posts, read 7,004,040 times
Reputation: 3471
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chas863 View Post
Why should we mandate a minimum wage when the cost of living varies so greatly from state to state and even from city to city within some states?

Minimum wages were never intended to be a "living wage" for a family... or even for an individual. Nevertheless, it is instructive to do some comparisons.

Would you rather be making $13/hour in California where the cost of a 1 BR apartment could be $3,000 per month (or HIGHER),

or would you rather be making $7.25/hour in Tennessee where a 1 BR apartment might cost you $700 per month?
Well there are way more people living in California than Tennessee, so I guess $13/hr w/$3K rent it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lieqiang View Post
The person selling the sundries from the corner market has an honorable job making a living so they can feed their family, pay taxes, and contribute to our society. Their business is no more a joke than some fool playing around with machinery in their garage thinking they are somehow better.
A lot of businesses only survive, and its owner only able to make certain income because there are others toiling away for them like slaves. I guess it depends on the definition of honorable. I say in your scenario an honorable owner will just do the work himself or share more of his income.

Now you probably will say then that someone wont get that job and earn a wage. But a single owner working by himself can only provide so much to the customers. Therefore the market opens up for competitors, and in turn spreads around business.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chas863 View Post
You seem to think that the economic laws of supply and demand have been repealed. They haven't. If prices and conditions in a city are such that a higher wage is needed to attract minimum wage workers, there is nothing stopping the employer from paying higher wages to attract those workers. Likewise, if workers aren't happy with the wages being offered, they are free to take their labor to someone who will pay them what they are really worth.

History has shown us that raising the minimum wage is simply an inflationary action that pushes everyone's wages higher and consequently the prices on everything go up too. So, in a short time, we're right back where we started except with higher numbers attached to everything. The minimum wage workers will still be minimum wage workers unless or until they acquire additional skills that make them more valuable to an employer.
Different items have different price elasticity. Not everything will have dollar for dollar, penny for penny of cost added onto the price. Consumers will stop demanding the item/service, or competitor will under cut.

Last edited by NJ Brazen_3133; 12-31-2019 at 03:54 AM..
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Old 12-31-2019, 03:47 AM
 
7,427 posts, read 7,004,040 times
Reputation: 3471
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chas863 View Post
Since "monetary policy" is set by the powers that be in Washington DC and is the same for our entire country, then why does an average house in California (or some other high price state) cost 3 to 5 times what the same house would cost in low cost states? I contend that it is due to rapid historic wage growth in the high cost areas.
Demand, speculators, banks relaxing their lending standards, and giving out more money, putting people into more debt, more people cramming themselves into smaller spaces to pay the higher fees.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
This is an interesting topic.

Background: There's a little technique in economics, something of an on the fly proofing device, to help identify the direction of small changes in something. I like the term, "exaggeration". It works as follows in this context.

Question: Does an increase in minimum wage cause inflation? (let's ignore the lost jobs angle for a bit)-
Answer: Well, it's hard to know. Not that many people earn the minimum wage. Any increase in the minimum wage is trivial compared to aggregate income etc. So I don't know.

Exaggeration: Would a new minimum of $60,000 cause inflation? (let's again ignore the lost jobs angle)
Answer: Of course.

__________________________________

So my argument would be that an increase in the minimum wage, spillover benefits and negatives ignored, is inflationary.

The rub is the number of people earning the minimum wage, plus others who might see wage increases times the delta in minimum wage + other wage increases is such a trivial amount that it has an imperceptible nationwide impact on inflation.

What will really happen is this. Democrats will get their minimum wage increases and they will declare victory. A tiny handful of people will see the increase push their family income a few dollars above the federal poverty line and again the democrats will declare victory. Let's add in one of the negatives now -a couple million people will lose their jobs with most moving onto more or net new public assistance of various types...........and here the democrats will actually win because voters eating from the public trough are 85-15 or better democratic voters.
But doesnt it have to be new money added to the system? MW is just money that already exists in the system changing hands. I say inflation comes from banks, and FED, and Govt everytime they do the bailouts, QE, repo, and etc etc.
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Old 12-31-2019, 04:20 AM
 
Location: Tucson/Nogales
18,204 posts, read 22,089,806 times
Reputation: 25462
In a city like San Francisco, with a minimum wage of $18 an hour, that would be a relief to those sharing an apartment with 4 others. And with a raise in the minimum wage to $20 an hour, it would make that apartment a bit roomier with just 3 sharing it!

I'm all for the alternatives and actually lowering the minimum wage. Alternatives: free bus tickets for the working class (Kansas City recently made all bus ridership free. Ogden, UT is another city), subsidized housing and generous food stamps, and tax breaks.

And with this issue you can't blame either political party. Back in the mid-90's both parties were opposed to raising the minimum wage, but with an election coming up in 1996, both parties embraced it.
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