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Old 04-28-2008, 05:46 PM
 
Location: Texas
8,064 posts, read 18,007,817 times
Reputation: 3729

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip T View Post
It is hardly that big of issue.

Much of rural Texas (where I operate from) is in negative population rates as are many parts of rural America for that matter, as well.

When I work in remote areas the local communities would sincerely like some growth -- else their kids wind up going away to college and not coming back. It becomes a real brain-drain of the community's "best and brightest."

Lincolnian is correct that many more places are quite habitable -- if that were the desired outcome. On the other hand, most existing cities could become oasis centers, as well, if that were the desired outcome. It just takes forethought, cooperation and follow-through.* Those are the hard parts. The climate, resource and technical issues are easy by comparison.




*(sounds like Peter Pan's "faith, trust, and pixie-dust," huh?)
Americans have proven not too swift with "forethought, cooperation and follow-through," unfortunately. It's build first, ask questions later, which is why our infrastructure can't keep up, water shortages develop, schools get overcrowded, etc.

I live in rural West Texas and, while it's true that without more people moving in we can't grow, our water resources, highways, etc. seem to suit the number of people living here.
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Old 04-29-2008, 03:13 AM
 
Location: Central CT, sometimes FL and NH.
4,538 posts, read 6,799,572 times
Reputation: 5985
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
You'll find that the people in those "sparsely populated" Northern areas won't take kindly to being turned into an overpopulated urban hell.
I agree that people wouldn't take kindly to an urban hell. However, the communities I am talking about would be green-based, well planned out, walkable communities that utilize self-sustaining technologies such as geothermal, solar and wind generation, reclaimed water, mixed use building construction, etc.

Businesses could locate near the workers and local agricultural resources would be used to supply restaurants and grocery stores. Technology, education and a solid transit system would be integral parts of the community attracting colleges and professionals who choose to live and work in a less auto-dependent community.

These are not easy answers, but there are places in this country where large tracts of land are available that would welcome responsible growth that respects the environment and limited resources.
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Old 04-29-2008, 04:57 AM
 
Location: The Woods
18,356 posts, read 26,489,954 times
Reputation: 11350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lincolnian View Post
I agree that people wouldn't take kindly to an urban hell. However, the communities I am talking about would be green-based, well planned out, walkable communities that utilize self-sustaining technologies such as geothermal, solar and wind generation, reclaimed water, mixed use building construction, etc.

Businesses could locate near the workers and local agricultural resources would be used to supply restaurants and grocery stores. Technology, education and a solid transit system would be integral parts of the community attracting colleges and professionals who choose to live and work in a less auto-dependent community.

These are not easy answers, but there are places in this country where large tracts of land are available that would welcome responsible growth that respects the environment and limited resources.
Unrealistic idea for many Northern areas.
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Old 04-29-2008, 08:20 AM
 
3,695 posts, read 11,370,975 times
Reputation: 2651
Massively planned communities typically don't work out in the long run, Lincolnian. The architects and planners usually forget that to make their cities work they need to fill them with people.
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Old 04-29-2008, 08:52 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,771,962 times
Reputation: 24863
Try "the villages" in Florida for the sucess of a planned community. No schools, no industry, no bars, just reliable ambulance access. Grim.
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Old 04-29-2008, 06:16 PM
 
Location: Texas
8,064 posts, read 18,007,817 times
Reputation: 3729
The problem, at every level, seems to stem from folks being removed (literally and figuratively) from that which sustains them. People in underdeveloped countries who once grew food to feed their families and villages gave up the practice when food aid and cheaper imports supplanted their efforts. Folks here in the U.S. used to have backyard gardens and a fruit tree or two. That's not common anymore.

Even though I was raised as an only child, my mom had a small garden in the backyard, growing tomatoes, peppers, and herbs. My aunt and uncle, who had five children, had a very large garden and fruit trees. Everyone in my family, with small gardens and large, canned and froze produce for use in the winter and spring. In our neighborhood, people would grow different veggies and then share. I have a garden in my backyard, too, which I decided to expand this year. I also planted blackberry bushes and fruit trees. I use seeds from the dollar store -- 10 packets for $1! Even a small yield will greatly help ease the stress on my food budget!

Another problem -- corporate farms and national/multi-national chain stores. The food is not fresh and is raised without safety and quality concerns in mind! As much as possible, I support the local farmers' market and the locally owned grocery stores, which buy their meat and produce from producers in the area. My dairy products come from a dairy just two hours away that produces and distributes in our immediate area.

We're paying the price for demanding out-of-season and exotic produce/foods and allowing others thousands of miles away to meet our demand.
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Old 04-30-2008, 03:14 AM
 
Location: Central CT, sometimes FL and NH.
4,538 posts, read 6,799,572 times
Reputation: 5985
Quote:
Originally Posted by teatime View Post
The problem, at every level, seems to stem from folks being removed (literally and figuratively) from that which sustains them. People in underdeveloped countries who once grew food to feed their families and villages gave up the practice when food aid and cheaper imports supplanted their efforts. Folks here in the U.S. used to have backyard gardens and a fruit tree or two. That's not common anymore.

Even though I was raised as an only child, my mom had a small garden in the backyard, growing tomatoes, peppers, and herbs. My aunt and uncle, who had five children, had a very large garden and fruit trees. Everyone in my family, with small gardens and large, canned and froze produce for use in the winter and spring. In our neighborhood, people would grow different veggies and then share. I have a garden in my backyard, too, which I decided to expand this year. I also planted blackberry bushes and fruit trees. I use seeds from the dollar store -- 10 packets for $1! Even a small yield will greatly help ease the stress on my food budget!

Another problem -- corporate farms and national/multi-national chain stores. The food is not fresh and is raised without safety and quality concerns in mind! As much as possible, I support the local farmers' market and the locally owned grocery stores, which buy their meat and produce from producers in the area. My dairy products come from a dairy just two hours away that produces and distributes in our immediate area.

We're paying the price for demanding out-of-season and exotic produce/foods and allowing others thousands of miles away to meet our demand.
Teatime,

You'll be happy to know that I heard a report the other day that backyard gardens are coming back into fashion and that seed suppliers are seeing 100% increases in sales due to the high cost of fruits and vegetables.

Additionally, with high gas prices it is likely that people are going to be looking for things to do at home and gardening is a popular choice as people tend to want to improve their surroundings when they spend more time at home.
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Old 04-30-2008, 10:19 AM
 
Location: America
6,993 posts, read 17,363,340 times
Reputation: 2093
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lincolnian View Post
Teatime,

You'll be happy to know that I heard a report the other day that backyard gardens are coming back into fashion and that seed suppliers are seeing 100% increases in sales due to the high cost of fruits and vegetables.

Additionally, with high gas prices it is likely that people are going to be looking for things to do at home and gardening is a popular choice as people tend to want to improve their surroundings when they spend more time at home.
you should also add to that that urban farming and community gardens is on the upswing. I think that would be a VERY good business venture. I think cities should start designating areas in their downtown for local farmers to sell their goods. Sort of like the Pike market in Seattle, all local, all organic.
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Old 04-30-2008, 10:33 AM
 
955 posts, read 2,157,312 times
Reputation: 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by teatime View Post
Another problem -- corporate farms and national/multi-national chain stores. The food is not fresh and is raised without safety and quality concerns in mind!
Just so I understand your thinking, are you suggesting that larger farms and chains are able to operate under a lower standard of quality and safety than smaller operations?

If so, what is the mechanism that makes it work that way? Are smaller operations being held to a higher standard than larger operations? With only so many federal inspectors available, don't you think it would make more sense to concentrate their efforts on the larger producers?
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Old 04-30-2008, 11:42 AM
 
17 posts, read 42,725 times
Reputation: 14
planned communities = central planning = communism. RIP America
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