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Old 04-08-2020, 04:09 PM
 
3,992 posts, read 1,842,080 times
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There is a segment of people who would choose a crappy free life over a nice work life. Do you think that number of people will go up - or go down - if you offer UBI?
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Old 04-08-2020, 04:15 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,639 posts, read 57,672,293 times
Reputation: 46079
If Spain is still giving villages away for free... (or low cost) I'm in!

I really liked living there in 1990's (especially the tapas (likely shut down at the moment))

They have a decent HC system for USA 'medical refugees'. BUT it just got tested and failed (more-so on elder care / social healthcare).

Lesson... be really nice and have someone live in your 'free-village' who is willing to STICK WITH being your caregiver.

https://www.thelocal.es/20140309/aba...-away-for-free
https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-...ewhere-2651533

Even in a FREE village... gonna need $25k - $40k / yr to live. (unless you get a village with a producing well / oasis)
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Old 04-08-2020, 05:37 PM
 
10,598 posts, read 5,572,957 times
Reputation: 18868
Paying people not to work makes about as much sense as paying farmers not to farm.
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Old 04-08-2020, 06:08 PM
 
3,281 posts, read 1,786,282 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Therblig View Post
My, that's a mighty fine straw figure, there. Quite handsome. Pull it out of some dark orifice and then go on a ridiculous rant about how much it will cost. Why not make it easy and say... $8k? $10k? I mean, if you're going to do inflationary math until you bust a vein, may as well make it easy.

C'mon back when you understand that UBI is not some welfare supplement to be dropped on our existing condition... and thus waving your hands and screeching about social security etc. is quite meaningless.
Thought I'd have a little fun with it.
Guess you didn't laugh.
Actually a true UBI could be done, but as this thread shows, it will have to navigate a landmine of opposition and a world of unknown and unintended consequences.

But it could and should eliminate a host of other state supports. Which ones, who knows.
You would want to keep them all though, right?
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Old 04-08-2020, 08:58 PM
 
19,558 posts, read 17,837,171 times
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Firstly, Spain has persistent structural economic issues like freakishly high long run unemployment and poverty. Ergo using Spain as an analogue for The US is faulty.

Secondly, no less an authority than the great conservative economist Milton Friedman used to rally for a UBI. He didn't like the idea of a UBI but insisted that a UBI with clear metrics was preferable to labyrinths of programs that coy people could easily game a further negative being the average guy simply wouldn't know how much people on the dole actually glean from the .gov.

Thirdly, we should take a look at what France has done the last 20 or so years vis a vis endless social welfare spending..................IT DOES NOT WORK. France is the only country in the world that spends more on social welfare as a percentage of GDP than The US (we are roughly tied with Denmark FWIIW). As France falters more and more every year on things like child poverty metrics.
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Old 04-08-2020, 09:50 PM
 
Location: Honolulu, HI
24,372 posts, read 9,240,450 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teak View Post
Give them $1,000 per month, and soon they will complain for more.
Correct. It’s called the hedonic treadmill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BornintheSprings View Post
Source? Or make believe?
The source is common sense but here you go
Quote:
The hedonic treadmill, also known as hedonic adaptation, is the observed tendency of humans to quickly return to a relatively stable level of happiness despite major positive or negative events or life changes. According to this theory, as a person makes more money, expectations and desires rise in tandem, which results in no permanent gain in happiness
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill
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Old 04-08-2020, 09:54 PM
 
Location: Northern Maine
5,466 posts, read 3,042,345 times
Reputation: 8011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chanteuse d' Opéra View Post
They'll be bankrupt when the next pandemic strikes.
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Old 04-09-2020, 06:59 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
4,944 posts, read 2,921,147 times
Reputation: 3805
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko20 View Post
Correct. It’s called the hedonic treadmill.

The source is common sense but here you go

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill
So by your logic anything that is done to improve human happiness and well being is a fools errand? I don't accept your faulty reasoning or your cherry picked example.
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Old 04-09-2020, 09:09 AM
 
Location: Flyover part of Virginia
4,230 posts, read 2,431,383 times
Reputation: 5059
Let's just wire $1M into every American's bank account to usher in a New Era of prosperity.
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Old 04-09-2020, 09:17 AM
 
3,992 posts, read 1,842,080 times
Reputation: 8557
You don't accept 500 years of philosophical / psychological research and evidence? Or worse - you, yourself, have never noticed this among your peers? It's not something to "accept" - it's just...the way it is.

No one is saying that improving happiness is a fool's errand. They're saying that some humans are never happy. Do you accept that?

Another way you could see it is as "money can't buy happiness." People THINK it does...but then it doesn't. But if they had a little tiny bit more...then it would. (Except it doesn't.)
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