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Old 04-14-2020, 02:27 PM
 
5,144 posts, read 3,074,561 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oceangaia View Post
None of which count more than reality, and the reality is that we have gone from a few trillion to $23T in national debt without seeing the inflation you claim is a consequence. Maybe you're the one missing something?
Not all of that money/debt circulates in the U.S. economy. Other countries buy U.S. Treasuries for their foreign exchange accounts. China for example has to convert hundreds of billions of dollars a year to yuan/renminbi in its export trade. Beyond the mechanics of export trading, China also buys treasury bonds to stabilize the exchange rate of the yuan. They obviously want the yuan to stay within a range so when it gets too high versus the USD, they have to buy Treasuries. China has the largest holdings but other countries do the same and it all adds up. Crude oil is priced in dollars so again, foreign countries are often forced to buy treasury bonds for their oil trade transactions.
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Old 04-14-2020, 02:55 PM
 
23,177 posts, read 12,200,270 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shanv3 View Post
I am not sure if the treasury is the lender. The treasury may get the tax money but in my understanding, the Federal reserve is made up of group of banks namely the Federal banks which are in 8 or 9 cities. The other private retail banks have a stake in the Fed. So if Fed is lending, then the banks are also lending..

So it means, by disbursing 2TN in loans, the banks may have sold a huge loan to the US government for which they will get interest. May be thats the reason why wall street is still jubilant and bank stocks are not tanking. Whereas in 2008, money had be taken from treasury and bail the banks out when they officially said "they ran out of money" .

May be my understanding is completely wrong..pls correct if needed.

The Federal Reserve are not real banks nor are they supported by real banks. They are not companies but constructs of the 1913 Federal Reserve Act which created them to print and distribute money. In order to maintain order, when they print money an offsetting entry is made in the liabilities column.
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Old 04-14-2020, 02:58 PM
 
23,177 posts, read 12,200,270 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
Well that's strange regarding independent thinking since I provided you several independent sources. I can explain the process of shifting investments to federal bonds but why bother. There is nothing more pitiful than a poster that cannot admit when they are wrong.

Oh here is another link...from INDEPENDENT SOURCES:

https://www.poynter.org/reporting-ed...virus-bailout/
"The U.S. government would borrow the money it would send to you for an economic stimulus by issuing Treasury bonds. "

You're confusing the recitation of memorized principles with independent thinking.


What is this "would"? Where is it getting the money that is flying out to everyone right now? Show me where even $100 Billion in Treasury bonds have been sold in the last month, much less $2T.
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Old 04-14-2020, 03:02 PM
 
23,177 posts, read 12,200,270 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimAZ View Post
Not all of that money/debt circulates in the U.S. economy. Other countries buy U.S. Treasuries for their foreign exchange accounts. China for example has to convert hundreds of billions of dollars a year to yuan/renminbi in its export trade. Beyond the mechanics of export trading, China also buys treasury bonds to stabilize the exchange rate of the yuan. They obviously want the yuan to stay within a range so when it gets too high versus the USD, they have to buy Treasuries. China has the largest holdings but other countries do the same and it all adds up. Crude oil is priced in dollars so again, foreign countries are often forced to buy treasury bonds for their oil trade transactions.

Quit it with this "other countries" nonsense. Other countries are pumping liquidity into their economies same as we are. They are not buying bonds to pump liquidity into ours. You can't have ten people in the room all loan $1000 to each other and create a group that is $10k more liquid.


China owns about $1T in Treasury bonds (and declining) bought over the last 3 decades. They didn't just buy $2T more.
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Old 04-14-2020, 03:05 PM
 
5,144 posts, read 3,074,561 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oceangaia View Post
You're confusing the recitation of memorized principles with independent thinking.


What is this "would"? Where is it getting the money that is flying out to everyone right now? Show me where even $100 Billion in Treasury bonds have been sold in the last month, much less $2T.
https://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/....htm#learnmore

We are still in April, so you’ll have to wait for May to get a full accounting of the carnage. Looks to me like the debt increased by $500B from 3/31 to 4/12. The pedal is to the metal.

Last edited by TimAZ; 04-14-2020 at 03:18 PM..
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Old 04-14-2020, 03:06 PM
 
Location: Sierra Vista, AZ
17,531 posts, read 24,685,656 times
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We brow it. our great grandchildren will be paying that bill. The taxes that are collected can barely pay the bill for money we borrowed in the past. once the interest on the debt exceeds our ability to pay, we are bankrupt. A couple trillion more could do it
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Old 04-14-2020, 03:16 PM
 
23,177 posts, read 12,200,270 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimAZ View Post
https://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/....htm#learnmore

We are still in April, so you’ll have to wait for May to get a full accounting of the carnage.

The debt is a manufactured entry to offset the manufactured entry of the asset. The lender was manufactured by the borrower. Imagine you have a printing press and make $1000 in counterfeit money, give it to your wife, and enter it as a $1000 debit in your books. That is the Federal Reserve.
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Old 04-14-2020, 03:54 PM
 
14,993 posts, read 23,875,941 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oceangaia View Post
You're confusing the recitation of memorized principles with independent thinking.


What is this "would"? Where is it getting the money that is flying out to everyone right now? Show me where even $100 Billion in Treasury bonds have been sold in the last month, much less $2T.
Here you go....$280 billion as of 2 weeks ago. LOL Next question?

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/us...article_inline
"in the last three days, sales of short-term Treasury bills have already run close to $280 billion"

This is the fifth support I gave you from independent sources, please say you are willing to admit you are wrong yet, this is tiring. Oh I forgot, the above is simply "recitation of memorized principles". How convenient.
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Old 04-14-2020, 04:10 PM
 
Location: Socal
182 posts, read 76,632 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimAZ View Post
Not all of that money/debt circulates in the U.S. economy. Other countries buy U.S. Treasuries for their foreign exchange accounts. China for example has to convert hundreds of billions of dollars a year to yuan/renminbi in its export trade. Beyond the mechanics of export trading, China also buys treasury bonds to stabilize the exchange rate of the yuan. They obviously want the yuan to stay within a range so when it gets too high versus the USD, they have to buy Treasuries. China has the largest holdings but other countries do the same and it all adds up. Crude oil is priced in dollars so again, foreign countries are often forced to buy treasury bonds for their oil trade transactions.

Chinese people are smart( and greedy). They are deliberately trying to keep their money exchange rate
for their yuan lower at the moment to stimulate their economy and encouraging produce export while expanding their wealth and getting more control on the trading war. They want to get to the position to manipulate the world trade while the US is losing its grip. Regarding the treasury bonds, US can't just sell out treasury bonds without facing a consequence. Many countries have done this to raise nation bonds in their own crisis which lead to currency devalues. China can certainly use this opportunity to hold on the upper hand in the US- China trading if it can overcome its own problems.


One certain thing is we taxpayers'd better be ready to pay even more taxes. Housing markets will keep on being overvalues for the most parts as they are right now.
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Old 04-14-2020, 06:02 PM
 
23,177 posts, read 12,200,270 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
Here you go....$280 billion as of 2 weeks ago. LOL Next question?

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/us...article_inline
"in the last three days, sales of short-term Treasury bills have already run close to $280 billion"

That's about a tenth of the $2.4T. I'm curious as to how this $2.4T in short term debt - maturity of a year or less - is going to be repaid.
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