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Old 04-16-2020, 01:45 PM
 
823 posts, read 358,605 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oklazona Bound View Post
So we have about 28,000 deaths as of 4/16. About half being in NY and NJ. Predictions just a few weeks ago warned of up to 200,000 deaths with a lock down and millions without. Many red state governors resisted doing a lock down including the states I spend most of my time in AZ and OK. In fact there are still more than half a dozen red states who have either a partial or no lock down. And these states have fared well compared other states took much more draconian measures.

In fact if you look at job losses per 1,000 people these red states overall have suffered fewer job losses than states with the harsh lock downs:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/09/this...ronavirus.html


So were these states right to resist locking down?
Yes, unless you think that a rancher on a 10,000 acre ranch in Montana has the same exposure risk as a subway rider in NYC.

Only the left believes that "one size fits all". That's always the way that the left think. They aren't content to make decisions on what is best for THEM. They want to decide what is best for YOU... regardless what you may think of it or what evidence supports your decision.
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Old 04-16-2020, 01:51 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
I think the main takeaway is that most red states have a totally different lifestyle model that inherently helps reduce transmission.
You meant to say "helps DELAY transmission." Even with the extra time to ramp up a proper federal response, in all likelihood you're going to ultimately see higher mortality rates in red counties/states, on average, for the same reasons why flu deaths are so much higher in red counties/states (higher obesity and smoking rates, older population, poorer access to medical care, fewer people with health insurance, etc.).
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Old 04-16-2020, 02:01 PM
 
Location: Was Midvalley Oregon; Now Eastside Seattle area
6,295 posts, read 2,797,670 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oklazona Bound View Post
..snip

So were these states right to resist locking down?
aside from my post on Food safety (sioux falls, SD),
yes, i do believe state and local governments know their local area's risk better than Absolute Power Leader.
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Old 04-16-2020, 02:06 PM
 
4,097 posts, read 1,361,451 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chas863 View Post
Yes, unless you think that a rancher on a 10,000 acre ranch in Montana has the same exposure risk as a subway rider in NYC.

Only the left believes that "one size fits all". That's always the way that the left think. They aren't content to make decisions on what is best for THEM. They want to decide what is best for YOU... regardless what you may think of it or what evidence supports your decision.
True, they tend to favor big, centralized government.
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Old 04-16-2020, 03:20 PM
 
4,390 posts, read 3,572,325 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chas863 View Post
Yes, unless you think that a rancher on a 10,000 acre ranch in Montana has the same exposure risk as a subway rider in NYC.

Only the left believes that "one size fits all". That's always the way that the left think. They aren't content to make decisions on what is best for THEM. They want to decide what is best for YOU... regardless what you may think of it or what evidence supports your decision.
Well, you're doing some mighty heavy shoveling here, a guy on a ten thousand acre ranch IS ALREADY distancing himself..When he goes to town though--- that ten thousand acres isn't going to factor one damn bit, is it?
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Old 04-16-2020, 04:10 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Foamposite View Post
True, they tend to favor big, centralized government.
Of course you've totally ignored the history of how big government came about in the US, preferring to lay it on the list of the lazy man's political assumptions. BOTH parties have contributed mightily to the expansion of US governance. And BOTH parties have helped build the framework for our modern day economic globalism. Our government has grown to it's current size through the execution of two world wars, not to mention the need for a huge entity to provide for the defense of US expansionism throughout the world's economies.
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Old 04-16-2020, 04:15 PM
 
1,163 posts, read 262,639 times
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There is undeniable data that social distancing works.

But I imagine it's more effective where social UNdistancing was A Thing in the first place.


If you look at the difference between when Ohio locked down (just 3 deaths) and when Michigan locked down (almost the same day ...but with 30 deaths) and when New York locked down (100 deaths) and when Italy locked down (300 deaths) you can pretty much see the results for yourself.



Having said that - right, same size not for everyone. Timing either. New York was pretty much screwed - sort of - in that thousands or hundreds of thousands of people caught it all at once...and the unique thing there is - hundreds of thousands of people were immediately available to catch it. Within a mile or two. It's entirely possible that there were more people swimming with the virus simultaneously in Manhattan than live in all of Montana. Not exaggerating. So - no - it was never going to be as rapid and crazy the same all over.



But really not seeing what red or blue has to do with it. Virginia is democrat, Ohio republican - same actions, same results.
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Old 04-16-2020, 06:01 PM
 
823 posts, read 358,605 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jertheber View Post
Well, you're doing some mighty heavy shoveling here, a guy on a ten thousand acre ranch IS ALREADY distancing himself..When he goes to town though--- that ten thousand acres isn't going to factor one damn bit, is it?
Except that if his state was in "lock down", he would be subject to being arrested for going into town in the first place if he were going to pick up a garden hose or some seed. This is why "one size fits all" is not a good idea regardless how much leftists like to think they know what is right for everyone.
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Old 04-16-2020, 06:11 PM
 
4,097 posts, read 1,361,451 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jertheber View Post
Of course you've totally ignored the history of how big government came about in the US, preferring to lay it on the list of the lazy man's political assumptions. BOTH parties have contributed mightily to the expansion of US governance. And BOTH parties have helped build the framework for our modern day economic globalism. Our government has grown to it's current size through the execution of two world wars, not to mention the need for a huge entity to provide for the defense of US expansionism throughout the world's economies.
Of course the GOP is also to blame. But on average, conservatives are more likely to have a freedom oriented mindset.
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Old 04-16-2020, 06:22 PM
 
Location: Was Midvalley Oregon; Now Eastside Seattle area
6,295 posts, read 2,797,670 times
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^19 ...subject to being arrested
Just where do the police think they will put the perp? A jail?
Practical terms, Absolute Power DJT or the local mayor, have very little 'power' to restrict movement and ptp contact with out the implicit compliance of the people.
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