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Old 06-30-2020, 11:25 AM
 
80 posts, read 29,710 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliRestoration View Post
I love anecdotes. They are so easy to make up.
Ask your doctor.

That;s what I do.
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Old 06-30-2020, 11:27 AM
 
80 posts, read 29,710 times
Reputation: 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbrains View Post
Not really. China locked down an entire city, and their densely populated country has had almost no additional cases since.

New Zealand went into isolation early, and the virus barely go a foothold. Their case count is very low.

Norway and Finland went into lockdown mode early, Sweden did not. Sweden has much higher case counts.

This is not hard to understand. If you take preventative measures, you prevent the virus from establishing and the people don’t get infected, or infect others.

It is like practicing safe sex, washing your hands before you cook dinner, and other common sense steps. You dramatically increase your risk of infection if you do not practice precautions. Community isolation is the best method we have at the moment for preventing viral spread.
It's very easy to find successful models.

I guess some people don't wish to study them. You can't force knowledge on people.

But I for one appreciate your effort to do so.

I appreciate it because quite frankly, I'm out of energy to keep doing so, after many months.

Some have to learn experientially.....the hard way. In this case, I think it will be the hard, hard way.
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Old 06-30-2020, 11:28 AM
 
1,429 posts, read 427,932 times
Reputation: 3798
Quote:
Originally Posted by pavedwithgold View Post
Viruses don't know if they are rising in a blue or red state. This is a highly contagious one though.

You can open or not open, but if your citizens are not practicing the suggested CDC requirements, (masks, social distancing, hand washing, etc.) then it has capability to spread.

Sometimes its better to ask the right questions, in order to get the right answer.

Anyone who makes this into a poltiical football, I just usually ignore.
The premise of the whole thread is political, is 44 pages long, and you've posted >10 times here.

Now, that is irony.
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Old 06-30-2020, 11:33 AM
 
9,343 posts, read 8,144,050 times
Reputation: 7805
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliRestoration View Post
Vindicated? They were just being logical and sane.

5 of the highest death total states engaged in strict lockdowns (CA, NY, MI, PA, NJ), and were shoving Covid-19 patients into nursing homes, you know... the population of people for which the virus had a nearly 10% mortality rate?

If you were not obese, or young, or had no immuno-compromised conditions, your survival rate was on par with the flu. In fact if you were in that 25 and under group, your survival rate was even better than the common flu.



The truth is if you minus all the nursing home/care home deaths, Covid-19 looks like a bad flu season, not even the worst on record.
You're making an argument in favor of the lockdown. Anyone who's worked with data knows the lead and lag effects of policies. You also have to apply the same exclusion to other series that you're comparing against. Letting infections run high will result in the US becoming isolated. Jobs will be lost in travel, hospitality, entertainment, and trade. It will also leak into foreign policy as allies look away from the US.
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Old 06-30-2020, 11:46 AM
 
6,031 posts, read 3,356,662 times
Reputation: 5863
Quote:
Originally Posted by pavedwithgold View Post
Ask your doctor.

That;s what I do.
Sure, I'm sure you did.
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Old 06-30-2020, 11:48 AM
 
6,031 posts, read 3,356,662 times
Reputation: 5863
Quote:
Originally Posted by lchoro View Post
You're making an argument in favor of the lockdown. Anyone who's worked with data knows the lead and lag effects of policies.
No I'm not.

Some of the highest state death totals happened in states WITH STRICT LOCKDOWNS. I clearly stated that in my post

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliRestoration View Post
5 of the highest death total states engaged in strict lockdowns (CA, NY, MI, PA, NJ), and were shoving Covid-19 patients into nursing homes, you know... the population of people for which the virus had a nearly 10% mortality rate?
As for "lagging effects", this is an argument that Branch Covidians have been using, and being completely wrong for months now.

What happened to the death spike after the ReOpen protests?

What happened to the death spike after the actual economic Reopenings?

What happened to the death spike after the BLM protests?

You've been completely wrong for 3 months straight. Literally none of the data supports your viewpoint. Are you still going to keep dying on the same hill?
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Old 06-30-2020, 12:06 PM
 
12,686 posts, read 17,748,222 times
Reputation: 14497
Quote:
Originally Posted by pavedwithgold View Post
Many people who get covid do not die, but they have lingering and possibly permanent problems.

So it's not just a matter of "dying".

I know athletes that were in top physical shape, got covid, and now can barely walk to their mailbox 1/10th of a mile from the front door. And they don't know how long that will last.

We also do not know ENOUGH about the long term deficits / effects on the human body yet.

The idea some put forth about "oh people get this all the time and recover" is therefore not the whole picture. Just because you don't end up in a hospital, intubated, doesn't mean anything because we just don't know.



Do you? How many? One famous case in media was a hoax and another famous athlete had leukemia. I'll be glad to hear about your real life experiences.



The only thing I posted was reputable research from a very reputable university, published in reputable science magazine, peer reviewed, that points out simple observation - fatality rate is tenfold lower, than what is generally said to be. That was it. Devil, apparently, is not as deadly, as it is painted.



In Germany, current trend is not to intubate at all, as, according to them, intubation causes more harm than help. They use external breathing support apparatus that is, actually, known here in the US, as DW works at COVID unit and they do have them. And, btw, they did not have a single COVID positive patient in 2 weeks, even with official spike in WA state.
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Old 06-30-2020, 02:52 PM
 
Location: Guadalajara, MX
7,547 posts, read 3,674,972 times
Reputation: 14351
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliRestoration View Post
If you were not obese, or young, or had no immuno-compromised conditions, your survival rate was on par with the flu.
Curious = What percentage of the American population fits this category of young + not obese + no pre-existing illnesses that increase their risk?

Also, are you comparing the fatality rate of this subset to the same subset within flu fatalities, or comparing the survival rate of the healthiest people with covid versus everyone with flu to same one it's on par?
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Old 06-30-2020, 02:54 PM
 
1,988 posts, read 1,559,027 times
Reputation: 1711
Default Yes

Less deaths is yes.
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Old 06-30-2020, 03:01 PM
 
6,031 posts, read 3,356,662 times
Reputation: 5863
Quote:
Originally Posted by lieqiang View Post
Curious = What percentage of the American population fits this category of young + not obese + no pre-existing illnesses that increase their risk?

Also, are you comparing the fatality rate of this subset to the same subset within flu fatalities, or comparing the survival rate of the healthiest people with covid versus everyone with flu to same one it's on par?
Well, we also have to take into account Blue state governors shoving Covid-19 patients into nursing/care homes as well.

We really want to get this right when we make our comparisons.
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