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The point is: There may be some states allowing those workers to have a "choice," but I know that personally my state does not. If my employer gets a PPP loan, calls me up, and says he's putting me back on payroll, I can't say, "No thanks, I can make more on unemployment." If I do, I then have to answer "Yes" on the unemployment question that asks, "Have you refused any offer of work?" At that point, I'm no longer eligible for unemployment.
I'm not making a value judgement on it one way or the other except to say that it is the factual case.
I don't even know a state that can happen baring some health concerns. Like for instance the meat packing plants in the mid-west. Granted this isn't as clear like which states may allow you to say "No" to "Have you refused any offer to work" states.
Imagining that someone would, or should be happy to WORK for less money than they can make sitting on their keister at home is a contradiction. Throw in the fact that at home they are SAFE from one of the more virulent communicable diseases to come along in a long while ... ... why are we shaming on the NATURAL desire of people to exploit the benefit side of a situation? Why? Would you shame someone who bought Avocado's 3 for $1.00 if the (same size) ones in the next bin over were $1.00 ea.? But I guess deep, deep, deep down America has never really lost the taste for labor being essentially free and the labor class should want to work for works sake. This thread is the result of the reality not lining up with the ideals.
Last edited by Leisesturm; 04-24-2020 at 02:26 PM..
Imagining that someone would, or should be happy to WORK for less money than they can make sitting on their keister at home is a contradiction. Throw in the fact that at home they are SAFE from one of the more virulent communicable diseases to come along in a long while ... ... why are we shaming on the NATURAL desire of people to exploit the benefit side of a situation? Why? Would you shame someone who bought Avocado's 3 for $1.00 if the (same size) ones in the next bin over were $1.00 ea.? But I guess deep, deep, deep down America has never really lost the taste for labor being essentially free and the labor class should want to work for works sake. This thread is the result of the reality not lining up with the ideals.
Because they get to do nothing. People have a negative view of people on the DOL.
I will apologize for my GD remark to you, that was condescending on my part.
I am far from naïve, what I stated is very real concerns.
There is no reason to feel disrespected. You do realize when you post people will comment on what you wrote? It was not about you, I was pointing out very serious issues that will end up impacting all of us.
I am glad you know about the Great Depression, but I am sad that you, me, and every American is now gong to know the experience first hand. No one will go unscathed. For some it will be very, very dire to people who will be OK, but it's not good.
America is in pretty much done. be more concerned about that than getting so miffed over something so trivial.
This isn't going to like anything any of us have seen in our lifetime.
The point is: There may be some states allowing those workers to have a "choice," but I know that personally my state does not. If my employer gets a PPP loan, calls me up, and says he's putting me back on payroll, I can't say, "No thanks, I can make more on unemployment." If I do, I then have to answer "Yes" on the unemployment question that asks, "Have you refused any offer of work?" At that point, I'm no longer eligible for unemployment.
I'm not making a value judgement on it one way or the other except to say that it is the factual case.
In the bold above, isn't it that you are supposed to answer "Yes" - but you might lie and answer "No." Is there really a verification mechanism? In the current environment, would anyone even check?
[quote=djsuperfly;57926572]The problem with 1) is that if you wanted to make the system more equitable whereby all workers are simply "made whole," it would require a whole lot more server resources, state workers, red tape, and just plain money, in addition to being slow. I mean, right now just about every claim is supposed to be being simply straight-up rubber stamped immediately, and most states are still struggling to keep up 4-6 weeks into this mess. What's that going to look like if we're means-testing every single application?
Every state looks at earnings over the last 4 quarters, and then calculates your UI benefit. They already means test each one.
It would not be THAT DIFFICULT, to calculate how much you earned (x), then add 600 without going over (x).
Any programmer could write that string in 45 seconds.
This is government inefficiency which will lead to further problems in reopening economic venues.
My county has tens of thousands of sub-$15 employees who would be stupid to go back to work rather than collect 50%-100% higher pay for staying home.
The unemployed make more than front line grocery workers, EMT ride alongs, and Nursing Assistants.
In the bold above, isn't it that you are supposed to answer "Yes" - but you might lie and answer "No." Is there really a verification mechanism? In the current environment, would anyone even check?
The employer needs to bring the employees back to not have to repay the PPP loan, so while the state may not have the resources to check out every claim, the employer certainly has the incentive to report status to the state.
Every state looks at earnings over the last 4 quarters, and then calculates your UI benefit. They already means test each one.
It would not be THAT DIFFICULT, to calculate how much you earned (x), then add 600 without going over (x).
Any programmer could write that string in 45 seconds.
This is government inefficiency which will lead to further problems in reopening economic venues.
My county has tens of thousands of sub-$15 employees who would be stupid to go back to work rather than collect 50%-100% higher pay for staying home.
The unemployed make more than front line grocery workers, EMT ride alongs, and Nursing Assistants.
Our gov't is just bad with money.
Well, in FL the max is $275 which pretty much the equivalent of a full-time, minimum wage job. So, means testing, sure, but really??? Darn near everyone is getting that.
Well, we could talk about what any programmer could do except many of these states are using such ancient computer language that they can't even find people who know how to program it.
And...I can talk specifically about FL. They've still only paid about 15% of claims, despite being at this for at least 5-6 weeks. There's still tons of people who haven't been able to file at all. The website is still glitchy and constantly kicking off users. This all despite the fact that the governor brought in a bunch of new servers and state workers. This despite the fact that they actually set up a new site for new claims just so the claims could supposedly get in, but it's glitchy too and everything still has to be manually moved over by state workers to the old system before processing. This despite the fact that supposedly you don't even have to go in and claim weeks anymore, as it's supposed to be done automatically. This despite the fact that the state is now shutting the system down for 3 full days for the second time. This despite the fact that the state now shuts the site down for 9 hours every night. But, yeah, it'd all be SUPER easy
As to the last point, sure those workers wouldn't want to go back to work, but if their employer gets a PPP loan and calls them up to come back to work, they have to go.
It's either:
A) Go back to work, take whatever the employer is offering, and hope one qualifies for partial unemployment to still get the federal dollars; or
B) Refuse the work and get kicked off unemployment altogether.
I'm not sure what is confusing people about this. Unemployment is for people who have no option to work. If one's employer offers to bring one back, one then has work.
As to the last point, sure those workers wouldn't want to go back to work, but if their employer gets a PPP loan and calls them up to come back to work, they have to go.
It's either:
A) Go back to work, take whatever the employer is offering, and hope one qualifies for partial unemployment to still get the federal dollars; or
B) Refuse the work and get kicked off unemployment altogether.
I'm not sure what is confusing people about this. Unemployment is for people who have no option to work. If one's employer offers to bring one back, one then has work.
Amazing this concept is so hard for some people to understand. I suspect those with the hardest time understanding this are the ones in dead end jobs....
you might lie and answer "No." Is there really a verification mechanism? In the current environment, would anyone even check?
Quote:
The employer needs to bring the employees back to not have to repay the PPP loan, so while the state may not have the resources to check out every claim, the employer certainly has the incentive to report status to the state.
I know saying "no" would be risky. A person would have to answer if it's worth the risk to them.
Will those systems cross-reference each other? If the systems are so "antiquated" maybe -- likely -- not. Not anytime soon anyway.
Look at how stupid and inept lawmakers were -- to not put a means test into the package in the first place. But who can blame them. They make so much money it never even occurred to them that unemployment AND the $600 A WEEK -- not a month -- but per WEEK -- could be more than some people make......because to THEM it would still be chicken feed and not a livable amount.
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