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As has been stated, it is FAR cheaper to produce high quality videos that can be used all over the country. Is math, science, medicine, history, law, or whatever any different in California than it is in NY, Ohio, or TX? Why have thousands of professors teaching the same thing in colleges and universities all over the country (with widely varying degrees of knowledge and skill) when you can have one (the BEST) teaching the subject that anyone anywhere with a computer can access the lesson (for a fee)?
Yes, when we lived in log cabins and walked ten miles to school, it was necessary to have a live teacher to teach the students. Today, satellites can send a signal pretty much anywhere in the country. And if you happen to live in a remote area where satellite coverage is lacking, the cost of a few cd's is trivial compared to the cost of traveling and staying in the Big City to attend live classes.
Why hasn't that happened already? You think there are not smart people out there that thought of that in the past 20 years?
People thought that radio would replace teaching. Then they thought TV would replace teaching. Youtube is just TV that you can watch on demand.
What do you think is cheaper? Hiring a lecturer? Or hiring a lecturer, graphic designer, video editor, curriculum designer, etc., etc.,? Doing the former costs you 60k a year. Doing the latter requires a team of 7-12 people who all get paid at least 45-60k a year. Do you think running a production studio costs nothing? For quality eLearning you have to have the content experts AND the production team.
For "the BEST" content... do you think those creators are going to give that out for free? Hell no, they'll brand and copyright their content and it will be like textbook prices all over again. There goes your savings.
I predict that after covid, maybe 10% more students will want online education than before. At most. The vast majority will want to have real school.
Last edited by redguard57; 04-28-2020 at 02:40 PM..
On the other hand, those of us who get and appreciate a real education should be grateful to those who think they can learn anything just by online courses. That will weed out a lot of competition for the good jobs. Just imagine the guy interviewing at Duke Energy. "Yep, I know all about working on 100-kV lines; I watched a YouTube video in the Holiday Inn last night."
As has been stated, it is FAR cheaper to produce high quality videos that can be used all over the country.
Typical overuse of unnecessary technology. There are hundreds of thousands of carefully-written books on every subject known to man; since anyone can learn anything by reading, we don't need viddier and innerfacing and y'know, all that teachin' crap.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff
"Yep, I know all about working on 100-kV lines; I watched a YouTube video in the Holiday Inn last night."
If we were to go all online it would NOT be cheaper. We'd have to hire all kinds of IT experts, more than we already have. Graphic designers, instructional designers, online TAs, etc., etc., that's not cheap. It's too much for one person to do. If I have to work all online I'm going to quit unless they pay me something like 30% more salary. My days now are about 12-15 hours long 6-7 days a week. In front of the computer all day every day is not what I signed on for. I also had to spend about $1500 on home office equipment and computer upgrades.
And the high quality content management programs like Blackboard can cost a school millions every year. Which is worth it because they're at the point where they're very good at providing a framework for lessons to go out and assignments to come in and get graded, but there are high IT infrastructure costs that come with trying to do online instruction right- you really can't run that kind of thing via e-mail and free Youtube accounts.
As for certifications, a number of academic areas are moving away from them because what they show is that a student is very good at learning enough to take a test but in many fields it shows zero about how to problem solve and use those skills successfully in the field under non-controlled conditions.
And the high quality content management programs like Blackboard can cost a school millions every year. Which is worth it because they're at the point where they're very good at providing a framework for lessons to go out and assignments to come in and get graded, but there are high IT infrastructure costs that come with trying to do online instruction right- you really can't run that kind of thing via e-mail and free Youtube accounts.
As for certifications, a number of academic areas are moving away from them because what they show is that a student is very good at learning enough to take a test but in many fields it shows zero about how to problem solve and use those skills successfully in the field under non-controlled conditions.
Not to mention all the costs of cheating mitigation, virtual proctoring, etc..
Everything is going virtual, which is time and cost efficient. When people get adapted to online learning, it will be difficult to lure them back on campus. It is foreseeable that over 50 % of higher ed institutions will close down their campuses in the coming decade. Education reformation is in the making and thanks to covid!
I really hope this "industry" dies to the point that it is no longer an industry. Education should not be "for-profit" (the instructors at the state colleges get paid more, with better benefits, anyway!)
As has been stated, it is FAR cheaper to produce high quality videos that can be used all over the country. Is math, science, medicine, history, law, or whatever any different in California than it is in NY, Ohio, or TX? Why have thousands of professors teaching the same thing in colleges and universities all over the country (with widely varying degrees of knowledge and skill) when you can have one (the BEST) teaching the subject that anyone anywhere with a computer can access the lesson (for a fee)?
Yes, when we lived in log cabins and walked ten miles to school, it was necessary to have a live teacher to teach the students. Today, satellites can send a signal pretty much anywhere in the country. And if you happen to live in a remote area where satellite coverage is lacking, the cost of a few cd's is trivial compared to the cost of traveling and staying in the Big City to attend live classes.
Your assumption is that learning happens while sitting passively watching a one way lecture in a classroom. In which case, YouTube is a cheaper substitute. But I don't think that's effective pedagogy either way.
Far more valuable in my education were:
1. Asking questions about examples during lecture.
2. Attending breakout class sections to work problems with an instructor answering questions.
3. Going to office hours to get help on problem sets.
4. Laboratory exercises and projects.
1-3 can be done online, but you don't realize much instructional cost savings.
Your assumption is that learning happens while sitting passively watching a one way lecture in a classroom. In which case, YouTube is a cheaper substitute. But I don't think that's effective pedagogy either way.
Far more valuable in my education were:
1. Asking questions about examples during lecture.
2. Attending breakout class sections to work problems with an instructor answering questions.
3. Going to office hours to get help on problem sets.
4. Laboratory exercises and projects.
1-3 can be done online, but you don't realize much instructional cost savings.
I didn't assume that at all. In fact, I didn't really get into the details of what all would be involved, but it would certainly be more than just watching a video.
I didn't assume that at all. In fact, I didn't really get into the details of what all would be involved, but it would certainly be more than just watching a video.
Colleges were already doing online before this. For like, 20 years. The only reason they could move online so fast and easily is because of that.
Online education works for a certain sort of introvert and people who can't get off work during class times. If it was going to take off, it would have already. It's had 20 years. When I was in college 2001-06 I took a couple online classes and felt I didn't get my money's worth. They're not fundamentally different now, except there's more video.
If I were a student, I'd consider 2020-21 a loss and take a gap year. I would not pay full freight for Zoom classes.
I think it doesn't matter so much about personality style, but learning style.
Quote:
7 Learning Styles:
Aural Learner (auditory-musical): You prefer using sound and music.
Logical Learner (mathematical): You prefer using logic, reasoning and systems.
Physical Learner (kinesthetic): You prefer using your body, hands and sense of touch.
Social Learner (interpersonal): You prefer to learn in groups or with other people.
Solitary Learner (intrapersonal): You prefer to work alone and use self-study.
Verbal Learner (linguistic): You prefer using words, both in speech and writing.
Visual Learner (spatial): You prefer using pictures, images, and spatial understanding.
I would argue Logical and Solitary learners may work with online courses. I would say Physical, Social and maybe Visual learners would not do as good online and surely benefit from in-person courses. I would say Aural, Logical and Verbal learners may fall into both.
I know there are a number of students looking at a gap year already. I get why, but I don't like it. I don't like it because often people who take off a year aren't likely to get enrolled. If college is a goal, perhaps a community college online program is best. Take care of humanities that way. Now if you have a scholarship, you pretty much have to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WoodburyWoody
There is already decades of studies that show that outcomes for online is comparable with face-to-face for many students' programs:
Good, accredited schools hold their online courses to the same standards as their face-to-face courses (in some cases, even higher standards).
Diploma mills existed long before the internet existed.
Want a degree that is of worth and one that employers respect? Enroll in a school of worth and that is respectable and do the work.
Yep, it pretty much depends on learning styles. If you have a learning style that both online and in-person learning can work, it can work. The biggest problem I see is the learning style and not the style of learning itself.
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