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Absolutely. I have said this for years. If students want to take on the "woke and broke" majors with no market value then you do it out of your own pocket. You couple this with cutting out all of the bloat in the admin ranks in higher ed and you have just solved a large portion of the problem in higher education today.
120 posts and cluelessness still wins. Fortunately, all the wasted eddicatin' was free.
I guess Dave Ramsey is finally reaching people. He's brought on a bunch of younger people (his daughter included) to talk to people about college and student loan debt.
Student loan fund availability should really be more major-dependent.
And what will happen is that tuition in those programs will go up to reflect the true cost of instruction. Right now the tuition from the liberal arts classes is subsidizing the more expensive nursing programs.
And what will happen is that tuition in those programs will go up to reflect the true cost of instruction. Right now the tuition from the liberal arts classes is subsidizing the more expensive nursing programs.
What should happen is that state legislatures need to look at what is providing the most bang for the buck for their states when they address how to fund higher education in their states. What would you prefer in your state? Not just from the perspective of your personal preferences, but what will be better for the greater good of the state? More doctors, nurses, engineers, accountants, computer/tech professionals, or more baristas with BA’s in psychology?
What should happen is that state legislatures need to look at what is providing the most bang for the buck for their states when they address how to fund higher education in their states. What would you prefer in your state? Not just from the perspective of your personal preferences, but what will be better for the greater good of the state? More doctors, nurses, engineers, accountants, computer/tech professionals, or more baristas with BA’s in psychology?
We actually have a problem with brain drain in Florida for assorted reasons from medical malpractice insurance (OBGYNs are really hard to recruit into Florida because of insurance reasons)to lack of STEM jobs in many areas to other states simply paying a lot more. On the other side of higher ed, there are some well-regarded community college welding programs around here and they should be a perfect fit for the local economy given local need, job forecasts and all that. But instead the Florida panhandle is training welders for Alabama because they can cross the state line and make $20-$25K more in Mobile than they can in Pensacola.
So why should the state invest even more money into academic programs for people who aren't going to stay here?
As for the BA in psychology, Starbucks is often a stopgap for a short period of time until a back office job in the insurance industry opens up, they move onto retail or restaurant management in another area and are making $60K+ a year, or they go back to law school.
We actually have a problem with brain drain in Florida for assorted reasons from medical malpractice insurance (OBGYNs are really hard to recruit into Florida because of insurance reasons)to lack of STEM jobs in many areas to other states simply paying a lot more. On the other side of higher ed, there are some well-regarded community college welding programs around here and they should be a perfect fit for the local economy given local need, job forecasts and all that. But instead the Florida panhandle is training welders for Alabama because they can cross the state line and make $20-$25K more in Mobile than they can in Pensacola.
So why should the state invest even more money into academic programs for people who aren't going to stay here?
While I didn’t address it in my post, funding those academic programs, and creating an economic climate where graduates want to stay in the state, are two sides of the same coin, and absolutely must be addressed. I don’t have the answers, but I’m not a state legislator that is paid to answer those questions.
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As for the BA in psychology, Starbucks is often a stopgap for a short period of time until a back office job in the insurance industry opens up, they move onto retail or restaurant management in another area and are making $60K+ a year, or they go back to law school.
Those are absolutely great outcomes, but I think we are deluding ourselves if we think those are somehow the norm.
Those are absolutely great outcomes, but I think we are deluding ourselves if we think those are somehow the norm.
Those kinds of jobs are more common than most people realize- management level at a Walmart or many chain restaurants can be six figures and as long as you can be taught how to read and enter information into basic financial spreadsheets, it does not require huge technical knowledge when many Americans struggle to pass high school trigonometry.
Absolutely. I have said this for years. If students want to take on the "woke and broke" majors with no market value then you do it out of your own pocket. You couple this with cutting out all of the bloat in the admin ranks in higher ed and you have just solved a large portion of the problem in higher education today.
University financial loan offices should base a student's eligibility on their declared major and earning potential in their first 3-5 years after graduating.
Probably, first year students shouldn't get a loan at all. If they don't have what it takes to graduate, they shouldn't be racking up debt from day one.
University financial loan offices should base a student's eligibility on their declared major and earning potential in their first 3-5 years after graduating.
Probably, first year students shouldn't get a loan at all. If they don't have what it takes to graduate, they shouldn't be racking up debt from day one.
The vast, vast majority of majors - over 80% of them, result in median middle class earnings for the graduates between 40-60k in 5 years. There are about 10% outliers on either side, but it's not the gender studies you think on the bottom end. It's mostly vocational subjects and theology related degrees (also vocational).
University financial loan offices should base a student's eligibility on their declared major and earning potential in their first 3-5 years after graduating.
Probably, first year students shouldn't get a loan at all. If they don't have what it takes to graduate, they shouldn't be racking up debt from day one.
There are numerous students who just barely hang on to collect student loans. They have no intention of paying them back and the universities don't mind stringing these students along for as long as possible because the universities are getting paid. You are left with a situation where the student has tens of thousands in debt, might not finish their degree or will be required to take additional credit hours to meet the minimum GPA required for graduation, and if they do finish the degree it is likely in an area of study that has no market value.
There are numerous students who just barely hang on to collect student loans. They have no intention of paying them back and the universities don't mind stringing these students along for as long as possible because the universities are getting paid. You are left with a situation where the student has tens of thousands in debt, might not finish their degree or will be required to take additional credit hours to meet the minimum GPA required for graduation, and if they do finish the degree it is likely in an area of study that has no market value.
Yes this is what I'm getting at -- students who get easy money to stay in school without a real career objective.
I used to be a starry eyed idealist -- let them study philosophy, English literature, medieval history! Someone has to be the poet or the philosopher in our society.
I still believe in that... but clearly there's lots of young people just doing college out of peer pressure or a false sense that it results in a better job.
It used to be that managerial jobs basically required a bachelor's degree, or at least paid more if you had one. You didn't advance in the white collar world without a college credential. A masters degree was even better, and a Ph.D. put you on an exalted level.
But then high tech came along and disrupted the system. You had 19-year-old wunderkinds dropping out of college and making millions of dollars in startups. It's still true today.
Now we're left wondering, look at all these millionaires and billionaires and generally successful middle class folks who didn't graduate. So what was the point?
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