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Maybe we're getting slammed now, but we will have time to recover, even with the prospect of higher debt and lower wage potential. I think those who are in the twilight years of their careers may be in bigger trouble. Not only do they face higher health risks, but they will have less time to recover financially. White collar jobs may be on the chopping block next (on a larger scale than now).
I agree with this. Those of us who rely on stock market gains (whether directly, as investors, or who have pensions that are heavily invested in the stock market, or a combination thereof) and are either near retirement or retired, are not going to fare as well as much younger people are, if they start investing even smaller amounts. As you point out, there just isn't time for us to do so.
For all of us to thrive, we must also get healthcare and drug costs under control and ensure that no one ever will find it difficult to get health insurance due to pre-existing conditions.
I'm an older Millennial. Let me start with a general analysis, and then I'll discuss something more specific to me.
Individuals in birth years 1982-1988 (I am in this group) have been the most economically decimated in U.S. history, taking a beating upon graduation in the late 2000s/early 2010s, and now also getting a disproportionate number of layoffs. No age cohort has ever taken a double beating like this. A lot of the first half of the Millennial generation was still recovering or barely recovered from 2008-2012 when the COVID 2020 tsunami arrived. The older half of the Millennials either graduated into the 2008-2012 recession and couldn't establish their career or were "Last In, First Out" layoffs in that 2008-2012 downturn. The whole Millennial generation dislikes "capitalism" due to its two epic failures in a 13 year period, but what they do not realize is that the United States has not been capitalist in 100 years, but rather more "crony capitalist" or "corporatist". The Millennial generation is justified in their dislike of what they think is capitalism, but uneducated of the poor form of capitalism that has been failing the needs of the generation.
In 2008, it was unfortunate that my MBA graduation was mere months before the collapse of Lehman. Even before Lehman collapsed, there were bad signs in the economy, especially as it pertains to new MBA hiring. Big companies plan out their new MBA hires about a year in advance. In Spring 2008, many large companies were setting up hiring freezes. As far back as Oct-Nov 2007, my MBA classmates and I were seeing our interview pipelines dry up and/or get cancelled. This whole era was immensely traumatizing. The recovery from what 2008 did to me was quite painful and took 5+ years. It took me until the late 2010s to recover from the last recession.
I have been decimated by the 2 worst recessions of the last 80 years (2008 and 2020 COVID). My early career has been obliterated. There is a chance that I will be picking up the pieces from the financial devastation of 2020 for a good portion of this decade. That would make both my 20s and 30s lost decades at the hands of crony capitalism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovemycomputer90
I think those who are in the twilight years of their careers may be in bigger trouble.
Not from an economic standpoint. They had many years to operate in good economies. Millennials have spent their entire careers dealing with recessions or recovering from them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bawac34618
The last generation that experienced this (came of age during WWI and experienced their prime during the roaring twenties) became known as the “lost generation.”
The 1980s born Millennials are the new "lost generation".
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeddy
poor widdle millennials, they have it so tough. Maybe we should start another war and draft them when they get out of high school to go fight a war 5,000 miles away like the boomers experienced.
OK Boomer.
No Boomer ever experienced a recession like 2008 or 2020 COVID. The recessions that Boomers experienced in the 1970s were a walk in the park compared to 2008 and 2020.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mingna
You can argue GenX graduating into the early 1990s recession faced stiff job competition against more numerous Boomers for scarce jobs, and later even stiffer competition internationally with a cheaper, globalized talent pool. I recall an honors engineer who graduated from a top tier program having to start off at an engineering firm as the office gofer and plant waterer, before proving his mettle enough to be actually given engineering projects.
Quote:
Originally Posted by k374
Millennials had the biggest stock market bull run in recorded history, what exactly are they complaining about? Millennials always constantly complaining even though they have been pampered as kids and handed everything on a silver platter by their Boomer parents.
The generation that had it worst was us Gen Xers... we did not have the obnoxious starting salaries being offered to the Millennials nor did we get to participate in the bonanza stock market bull run that the Boomers had from 82-99.
Gen X has very little to complain about, as compared to Millennials. A lot of Gen X was graduating into the dot com boom economies of the 1990s. Millennials who graduated at some point in the 2000s often wish we were a part of the Class of 1996.
Millennials didn't really get to take advantage of much in the stock market in the 2010s, after seeing their employment prospects radically altered by 2008.
Unless you have a particularly rare and in-demand skillset, it is very hard to negotiate remote work at a new employer, especially at more traditional companies where remote work is frowned upon.
The CIO where I work sent out an email to all of IT saying how great productivity has been, and how there has been no drop-off since we remote. Before COVID, remote work was strictly prohibited unless it was after hours. Even for hard-to-find positions, we tended to pay a staffing agency to have a contractor sit on-site rather than have them remote.
I've been at my current place for four years. My coworkers know I don't particularly like living around here, yet I'm effectively stuck here because of my job. If I could be in the office just a day or two a week, I'd move a couple hours away where there are better places to live. I'm already thirty minutes out as it is. Being able to be mostly remote, while still coming in once a week or so for the face time and necessary meetings, would greatly improve my quality of life, but I doubt that will happen.
I guess my skill set is unique enough.
The company that I'm currently at hired me as a remote employee 2 years ago and there is actually only one person on our entire team that actually works out of the office. The rest of the team is spread across the US. Although this isnt relevant to me as I was remote before this, it probably also helps that we are a SaS company that recently merged with another, so the company is actually spread out across 3 cities at this point.
Many GenX entered the property ladder at or near the top of the housing bubble peak, when they bought their first homes around 2005-2006, only to find themselves financially decimated when it burst shortly thereafter. In some markets today, it has barely recovered from the peak prices they paid, when adjusted for inflation.
I think the bottom line is some of every group is doing just fine and others of every group are struggling. No one's career and life was paved with a yellow brick road. All of my friends are millennials, ranging from lawyers and people at hedge funds in NYC to linesmen and manual labor in Saint Louis. All of them are on their own two feet and none are outright struggling. The ones that I know that one could argue are struggling have largely done it to themselves. Buying a $60k pool when they have law school debt, buying more home than they need, when there are many more affordable options around them. But even those people I wouldn't say are struggling, but they are likely living a middle-class paycheck to paycheck lifestyle that will/would crumble if one of them loses their job. I don't have a pool in my backyard, or live in a house their size, but I know if I lost my job I'd be more than fine for at least a year.
Many younger people were set to fail even before COVID. They had big debt with jobs and degrees that didn't support that level of debt. A lot of people are going to wish they had different degrees and training through this.
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
44,553 posts, read 81,085,957 times
Reputation: 57728
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ312
I'm an older Millennial. Let me start with a general analysis, and then I'll discuss something more specific to me.
Individuals in birth years 1982-1988 (I am in this group) have been the most economically decimated in U.S. history, taking a beating upon graduation in the late 2000s/early 2010s, and now also getting a disproportionate number of layoffs. No age cohort has ever taken a double beating like this. A lot of the first half of the Millennial generation was still recovering or barely recovered from 2008-2012 when the COVID 2020 tsunami arrived. The older half of the Millennials either graduated into the 2008-2012 recession and couldn't establish their career or were "Last In, First Out" layoffs in that 2008-2012 downturn. The whole Millennial generation dislikes "capitalism" due to its two epic failures in a 13 year period, but what they do not realize is that the United States has not been capitalist in 100 years, but rather more "crony capitalist" or "corporatist". The Millennial generation is justified in their dislike of what they think is capitalism, but uneducated of the poor form of capitalism that has been failing the needs of the generation.
In 2008, it was unfortunate that my MBA graduation was mere months before the collapse of Lehman. Even before Lehman collapsed, there were bad signs in the economy, especially as it pertains to new MBA hiring. Big companies plan out their new MBA hires about a year in advance. In Spring 2008, many large companies were setting up hiring freezes. As far back as Oct-Nov 2007, my MBA classmates and I were seeing our interview pipelines dry up and/or get cancelled. This whole era was immensely traumatizing. The recovery from what 2008 did to me was quite painful and took 5+ years. It took me until the late 2010s to recover from the last recession.
I have been decimated by the 2 worst recessions of the last 80 years (2008 and 2020 COVID). My early career has been obliterated. There is a chance that I will be picking up the pieces from the financial devastation of 2020 for a good portion of this decade. That would make both my 20s and 30s lost decades at the hands of crony capitalism.
Not from an economic standpoint. They had many years to operate in good economies. Millennials have spent their entire careers dealing with recessions or recovering from them.
The 1980s born Millennials are the new "lost generation".
OK Boomer.
No Boomer ever experienced a recession like 2008 or 2020 COVID. The recessions that Boomers experienced in the 1970s were a walk in the park compared to 2008 and 2020.
Gen X has very little to complain about, as compared to Millennials. A lot of Gen X was graduating into the dot com boom economies of the 1990s. Millennials who graduated at some point in the 2000s often wish we were a part of the Class of 1996.
Millennials didn't really get to take advantage of much in the stock market in the 2010s, after seeing their employment prospects radically altered by 2008.
The younger boomers are just 56 years old, so guess what? We too experienced the 2008 and 2020 recessions, and also were affected by 9/11. Many of us are also still working at age 65+. I personally had a big loss of business after 9/11, and then lost it completely in the recession in 2008. In the early 1970's I waited in line for gas, but was still in college & graduate school, staring my first real job in 1975. Our bigger challenge back then which has not been experienced since 1973 was the Vietnam War and draft. Draftees accounted for 30.4% (17,725) of combat deaths in Vietnam, and almost all boomers.
The younger boomers are just 56 years old, so guess what? We too experienced the 2008 and 2020 recessions, and also were affected by 9/11. Many of us are also still working at age 65+. I personally had a big loss of business after 9/11, and then lost it completely in the recession in 2008. In the early 1970's I waited in line for gas, but was still in college & graduate school, staring my first real job in 1975. Our bigger challenge back then which has not been experienced since 1973 was the Vietnam War and draft. Draftees accounted for 30.4% (17,725) of combat deaths in Vietnam, and almost all boomers.
No reasonable person denies that all generations are hit, but they aren’t hit equally. Where you are in the accumulation phase matters. And contrary to the popular belief that “oh you’re young, these bad events don’t matter you’ll recover”, it’s actually more painful the earlier it is, because it has longer to accumulate the lost opportunity. Again, all you have to do is look at the federal reserve data to see how poorly a generation performs when they enter the workforce in a recession. And 2008 wasn’t just any recession. And now this looks to match 2008 in its severity, but perhaps being even more widespread since 2008 tended to hit certain regions harder.
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
44,553 posts, read 81,085,957 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57
Clueless.
What part of 33 million unemployed don't you get? We haven't seen anything like this in 100 years. There is no reinventing one's self out a depression like this.
Colleges are going to close around the country next year, so even if you wanted to retrain, there's going to be less opportunity. No one is safe. Not your kids, not you. The 2nd wave of layoffs is coming for white collar workers next.
Millennials are 23-39 years old. The most unemployed now are under age 20, and ages 20-24. As shown below most of the millennials are at 14.5% unemployment. High, yes, but much less than ages 20-24 at 25.7%, and they are Generation Z.
[quote=RJ312;58053405
"[I]Individuals in birth years 1982-1988 (I am in this group) have been the most economically decimated in U.S. history, taking a beating upon graduation in the late 2000s/early 2010s, and now also getting a disproportionate number of layoffs. No age cohort has ever taken a double beating like this[/i]."
This is the kind of rhetoric that tends to inflame the tension between generations. People coming out of a MBA education, posturing as the most aggrieved citizens in all of US history. That statement only underscores the fact that an MBA doesn't require much US labor history. In the 1970 recession I lost my business, house, car, and all belongings except that which I could stuff into a small carry bag. My wife left soon after realizing she was going to be poor--for years.
That setback took me years to recover from, and in 1973, the economy dumped again, this time it was the gasoline shortage that upended the cart. More struggle, lost jobs, homes, and then came the eighties, with more economic uncertainty, not a full on recession but moreover the residual effect of the last twenty years of wars, manufacturing loss, S&L debacles, etc, or best put-- by Roseanne Rosannadanna - "Like my father says, 'if it's not one thing, it's another"...it's always somethin.' Many of my friends had the same experience but their's included the horrific Vietnam trip, yes, war is an unforgettable interrupter of one's life, and sometimes interrupted to death..
I feel a ton of empathy for ANYONE who has suffered greatly in this American economy, a poor upbringing,
a poor education because of living in poverty, no future except the military-where you may end up as an on the job casualty, living in total dysfunction, simply because you don't have the background or wherewithal to advance to anything-- with the exception of one's demise. So, while I do understand your point of exiting college into a poor economy--I feel that you've had some distinct advantages over those who actually ARE the true victims of American class/economic constructs..
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