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View Poll Results: Economic conditions in the United States in January 2022.
Expansion 56 54.37%
recession 24 23.30%
depression 23 22.33%
Voters: 103. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-21-2020, 12:28 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
27,608 posts, read 20,598,978 times
Reputation: 33436

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taggerung View Post
The problem is the government can never support the people. The people support the government, not the other way around.

If we had a sound economic system with sound money that encouraged prudence and conservation rather than debt fueled consumerism and profligacy, it would be no big deal for individuals to go a few months with no paycheck, or for businesses to go a few months without revenue. It's because of the government and Federal Reserve that our financial system is so sick that its on the verge of collapse after a couple months of slowed activity.

The government has no money to give out. Whatever funds the government has, it must get by taxing the people, either directly or indirectly. Indirect taxation (inflation ie "printing money") is in the long run a far more expensive way to pay for government.
What you do is print the money and issue debt at low rates to fill that demand hole with money as fast as you can to try and build a bridge to the other side of the pandemic.
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Old 05-21-2020, 01:39 PM
 
Location: Washington Park, Denver
8,082 posts, read 7,509,836 times
Reputation: 9105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taggerung View Post
As I said before, the government has nothing it doesn't first take from the people. The most helpful thing for the government to do in a crisis is cut spending and bureaucracy, reduce the burden of government on the people and the economy.
As I said before, this is your religion. It’s not supported by facts. All data available support strong central bank and government intervention during times of crisis. Every time we have had a crisis and there has been strong government action, the blow has been softened and all you antigovernment types forecast impending doom. Every time you tell us that this time is going to be different. You’re the same as the guy on the corner with the cardboard sign predicting the end of the world.

Show me a country without a strong central bank and I’ll show you a country that doesn’t do well in times of crisis.
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Old 05-21-2020, 01:46 PM
 
Location: Heart of flyover America
644 posts, read 255,821 times
Reputation: 1222
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyDog77 View Post
As I said before, this is your religion. It’s not supported by facts. All data available support strong central bank and government intervention during times of crisis. Every time we have had a crisis and there has been strong government action, the blow has been softened and all you antigovernment types forecast impending doom. Every time you tell us that this time is going to be different. You’re the same as the guy on the corner with the cardboard sign predicting the end of the world.

Show me a country without a strong central bank and I’ll show you a country that doesn’t do well in times of crisis.
The only thing that central banks can do is issue more debt. You can't solve a debt crisis by issuing more debt.

In 2-4 years, we'll see which one of us is right.
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Old 05-21-2020, 01:49 PM
 
3,560 posts, read 2,254,246 times
Reputation: 8026
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taggerung View Post
The only thing that central banks can do is issue more debt. You can't solve a debt crisis by issuing more debt.

In 2-4 years, we'll see which one of us is right.
Explain to me how u.s debt is a crisis compared to the income and assets of the country and how much the debt costs in comparison to our gdp.
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Old 05-21-2020, 02:14 PM
 
Location: Washington Park, Denver
8,082 posts, read 7,509,836 times
Reputation: 9105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taggerung View Post
The only thing that central banks can do is issue more debt. You can't solve a debt crisis by issuing more debt.

In 2-4 years, we'll see which one of us is right.
Nah. You guys never admit to being wrong. You’ll just say that the Fed did something else that they shouldn’t have and are continuing to artificially prop up the markets. You’ll say that you were off in your timeline but that doom is still around the corner. You don’t realize that there is nothing ”artificial” going on.

It is religion for you. There’s nothing you can see to disprove your belief.

Maybe the bet should be that if the system hasn’t collapsed in 2 years, you agree to take a macroeconomics course and maybe a corporate finance course.

If the system does collapse, I’ll admit you were right, but I won’t be able to pay you anything.
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Old 05-21-2020, 02:20 PM
 
Location: Heart of flyover America
644 posts, read 255,821 times
Reputation: 1222
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatsright19 View Post
Explain to me how u.s debt is a crisis compared to the income and assets of the country and how much the debt costs in comparison to our gdp.
$225T (and exploding) total debt+ unfunded liabilities and $21T (and plummeting) GDP.

If you think that's in anyway sustainable, then I'm sorry I can't help you.
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Old 05-21-2020, 02:27 PM
 
Location: Washington Park, Denver
8,082 posts, read 7,509,836 times
Reputation: 9105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taggerung View Post
$225T (and exploding) total debt+ unfunded liabilities and $21T (and plummeting) GDP.

If you think that's in anyway sustainable, then I'm sorry I can't help you.
Well, I think I see the problem here...
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Old 05-21-2020, 02:33 PM
 
Location: Guadalajara, MX
7,497 posts, read 3,646,083 times
Reputation: 14295
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyDog77 View Post
Nah. You guys never admit to being wrong. You’ll just say that the Fed did something else that they shouldn’t have and are continuing to artificially prop up the markets.
Exactly this. It boils down to:

"Well it would have collapsed like I predicted, if something hadn't happened that made me wrong."

I'm honestly not sure which is funnier, the "would have" crowed or the ones who decide it actually did collapse but all the rest of us just aren't smart enough to realize it.
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Old 05-21-2020, 02:37 PM
 
Location: Heart of flyover America
644 posts, read 255,821 times
Reputation: 1222
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyDog77 View Post
Well, I think I see the problem here...
https://www.usdebtclock.org/

Add up the total debt and the unfunded liabilities. It's about $225 T.
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Old 05-21-2020, 02:42 PM
 
Location: Heart of flyover America
644 posts, read 255,821 times
Reputation: 1222
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyDog77 View Post
Nah. You guys never admit to being wrong. You’ll just say that the Fed did something else that they shouldn’t have and are continuing to artificially prop up the markets. You’ll say that you were off in your timeline but that doom is still around the corner. You don’t realize that there is nothing ”artificial” going on.

It is religion for you. There’s nothing you can see to disprove your belief.

Maybe the bet should be that if the system hasn’t collapsed in 2 years, you agree to take a macroeconomics course and maybe a corporate finance course.

If the system does collapse, I’ll admit you were right, but I won’t be able to pay you anything.
Alright we'll make a deal.

If on May 21 2023, we've resumed the 2019 euphoric drunken debt orgy, I'll take a picture of myself in a pink tutu and post it here on this forum. If I'm right and we're in severe economic crisis, you have to do the same (assuming the internet's still up and running).
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