U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Covid-19 Information Page
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
View Poll Results: Could a UBI paired with a flat tax replace our progressive tax and welfare system?
definitely 0 0%
probably 2 5.41%
maybe 7 18.92%
probably not 3 8.11%
definitely not 25 67.57%
Voters: 37. You may not vote on this poll

Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-27-2020, 09:03 PM
 
138 posts, read 91,479 times
Reputation: 185

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatsright19 View Post
Flat taxes are nonstarters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
This. The lower middle class gets hosed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Therblig View Post
That, too. It's not just the 'lower middle class'; pretty much everyone gets hosed at the benefit of the upper income brackets.
The middle class is already being hosed under our current system of so-called "progressive" taxes and means-tested welfare benefits. Because the middle class gets taxed to fund benefits that they are not eligible for themselves, they can end up worse off than even the poor.

Here's a graph showing total after-tax income plus welfare benefits vs pre-tax income for a single parent with two children in Chicago. After deducting taxes and adding means-tested welfare benefits, a single parent with two kids earning between 40K to 80K a year actually ends up worse off than someone in a similar situation but earning only 20K.


https://www.illinoispolicy.org/illin...es-in-poverty/

Last edited by zhubaba; 05-27-2020 at 09:20 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-27-2020, 09:48 PM
 
Location: Henderson, NV
6,632 posts, read 6,725,151 times
Reputation: 8714
Quote:
Originally Posted by Therblig View Post
UBI and 'socialism' have nothing to do with each other. And I'm sure you don't see your Social Security check as being any form of either one. (Surprise!)

And no, most US/global problems were not created by individuals, not acting on their own; you might as well say it's up to each family to fix the virus problem.
Huh?!? People pay into social security by working, you do realize that right? I currently wouldn’t get social security because I don’t collect a paycheck and never have, my income is all passive and investment income. People who have money taken out of their paychecks get social security. It’s not like free money yay socialism. No, they earned that money and paid into the system. If I didn’t pay into the system, I don’t get that money, which is fair. That’s not socialism.

UBI is socialism, don’t kid yourself, giving people money for nothing is absolutely socialism. You have to be completely head in the sand liberal nut not to see that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-27-2020, 11:28 PM
 
585 posts, read 198,711 times
Reputation: 1014
Quote:
Originally Posted by apple92680 View Post
Is social security a "cancer" ?
Is Medicare insurance a "cancer" ?

Are public libraries a "cancer" ?
Are state highways and roads a "cancer" ?

Community colleges and public universities? Are they cancerous?

social security is a glorified legal forced ponzi scheme
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-28-2020, 08:45 AM
 
1,963 posts, read 503,478 times
Reputation: 3155
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonathanLB View Post
UBI is socialism, don’t kid yourself, giving people money for nothing is absolutely socialism. You have to be completely head in the sand liberal nut not to see that.
Well, come on back when you can define the word.

Or realize that the US "gives money for nothing" with about a third of its budget — to everyone from individuals to corporate farms to industrial giants.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-28-2020, 08:46 AM
 
1,963 posts, read 503,478 times
Reputation: 3155
Quote:
Originally Posted by djohnslaw View Post
social security is a glorified legal forced ponzi scheme
And US citz #213,958,004 figures out it's not a prepaid pension and never was. Congratulations.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-28-2020, 09:44 AM
 
7,356 posts, read 2,734,494 times
Reputation: 9654
Flat tax? No. What the US needs is an excess wealth tax coupled with UBI to get the distribution of wealth back towards historical norms. The current path is unsustainable. A nation of mostly working poor, a tiny middle class and a tiny elite ultra-wealthy class will not have a healthy economy.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-28-2020, 10:07 AM
 
1,963 posts, read 503,478 times
Reputation: 3155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliott_CA View Post
Flat tax? No. What the US needs is an excess wealth tax coupled with UBI to get the distribution of wealth back towards historical norms. The current path is unsustainable. A nation of mostly working poor, a tiny middle class and a tiny elite ultra-wealthy class will not have a healthy economy.
Shift that to include a very large pool of permanently unemployed under those 'working poor,' and "healthy economy" becomes a punchline.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-28-2020, 04:01 PM
 
Location: Knoxville, TN
3,469 posts, read 1,131,173 times
Reputation: 3476
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliott_CA View Post
Flat tax? No. What the US needs is an excess wealth tax coupled with UBI to get the distribution of wealth back towards historical norms. The current path is unsustainable. A nation of mostly working poor, a tiny middle class and a tiny elite ultra-wealthy class will not have a healthy economy.
Tiny middle class my butt!

Seriously?

That "tiny middle class" sent that worthless demented socialist Barney Sanders packing, for good this time...thank god. Never do I ever have to look at that man on the tv ever again.

It only makes sense that middle class people would be against socialism because they actually work for what they have.

The middle class makes up the majority of the United States, duh.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-31-2020, 10:33 AM
 
Location: Sector 001
7,767 posts, read 7,091,418 times
Reputation: 8992
If anything the top marginal income tax rate should be raised back up to 50-66%, like it was during most of the 20th century. I'm not in favor of basic income because I believe people should have to contribute to society in some fashion in order to live. People should not be able to live off of welfare for 5, 10, 20 years and not work at all. Some manner of survival of the fittest is good for the specie's genetic makeup not to mentioned keeping the budget balanced and unfunded liabilities low. Universal healthcare that is paid for would be a net positive however.

First $30K of income is tax free.

Then tax income from $30K to $75K at 20%

$75K to $500K at 30%

$500K to $1M at 40%

$1M to $10M at 50%

$10M-50M at 60%

$50M+ at 75%

On the other hand I don't believe the multi-generational billionaires that keep getting richer and richer should be able to accumulate more and more wealth without consequences either. Any method to make money from simply having money should be taxed more heavily than labor is. If anything labor shouldn't be taxed. Wealth should be taxed. None of this will happen, and the american empire is in decline, so this post is pointless. CEOs will continue to exercise stock options and add to their wealth while paying only a pittance in taxes to do so, percentage-wise. They will continue to buy back stocks then ask for bailouts. The fed will encourage the reckless blowing up of asset bubbles by making rates near zero or even negative. All this corrupt behavior will lead to the decline of western culture.

The top and bottom suck from the middle. The system works until it doesn't.

Last edited by sholomar; 05-31-2020 at 10:55 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2020, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top