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Old 05-30-2020, 02:07 AM
 
Location: Washington Park, Denver
8,082 posts, read 7,505,926 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post
Also a barrier to USA competitiveness is:
Costs of carrying inventory of completed goods and materials. Land / buildings / insurance / taxes / Labor / Benefits / business loan interest ... are all high in USA, and the taxation of businesses in USA is no longer business 'friendly' as in incentising the business to grow. USA taxation methods discourage business in USA, especially Manf, or capital intensive industries.

:"service jobs' are not too valuable as a 'domestic value added product', and not nearly as high pay as the factory labor
This is just plain wrong regarding US taxes and interest. The TCJA brought our corporate taxes inline with the rest of the world. Interest rates are very low across the world. The US corporate tax rate is 21%. The global average is around 23%.

Carrying costs of inventory have to do with cost of capital.
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Old 05-30-2020, 09:55 AM
 
11,784 posts, read 13,665,001 times
Reputation: 17177
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
The electronic industry is a good example of what happens when companies don’t buy their own stock...

Many American companies had great names in the business ...it made it easy for foreign companies to walk in and take control , keeping the name , firing our workers and shutting down operations here .

Zenith is a prime example

It was even used in a movie.............



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcPzktMe2Yc
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Old 05-30-2020, 10:07 AM
 
Location: Guadalajara, MX
7,492 posts, read 3,644,311 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post
and the taxation of businesses in USA is no longer business 'friendly' as in incentising the business to grow.
Hah we briefly interrupt our complaining about US corporations not paying their fair share of taxes....
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Old 05-30-2020, 10:14 AM
 
4,516 posts, read 3,907,405 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyDog77 View Post
This is just plain wrong regarding US taxes and interest. The TCJA brought our corporate taxes inline with the rest of the world. Interest rates are very low across the world. The US corporate tax rate is 21%. The global average is around 23%.

Carrying costs of inventory have to do with cost of capital.
There's also the cost of litigation. The litigation load in the U.S. is double that of the Euro zone, and several times higher than Japan. We can assume that there's basically zero litigation load in China, which barely has a real legal system and operates on a top-down, authoritarian, guanxi system to get things done.

Mind you, I'm not saying we should become like China; they have terrible problems of their own, namely a seething rage among the common people that occasionally boils over when the corruption by the Party becomes too egregious. They're a ticking time bomb. It may be in fact that we will get our manufacturing back simply by sitting back and waiting for them to implode.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lieqiang View Post
Hah we briefly interrupt our complaining about US corporations not paying their fair share of taxes....
LOL in my opinion, corporations should not be taxed. Taxing a corporation is, indirectly, taxing its employees and customers. It feels good ideologically, but it's only hurting ourselves. Imagine if we completely eliminated taxation of our corporations -- companies would come flooding back from Asia and Latin America. There wouldn't be enough employees to go around, but we would see a vast general economic expansion that would make up for loss of tax revenue.
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Old 05-30-2020, 10:53 AM
 
1,963 posts, read 503,478 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blisterpeanuts View Post
LOL in my opinion, corporations should not be taxed. Taxing a corporation is, indirectly, taxing its employees and customers.
And goodness knows we can't tax the poor owners who wouldn't — didn't — pass any increases on to either customers or employees, but either pocketed the savings or used it to buy (back) additional concentrated wealth.
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Old 05-30-2020, 11:19 AM
 
Location: Washington Park, Denver
8,082 posts, read 7,505,926 times
Reputation: 9105
Quote:
Originally Posted by blisterpeanuts View Post
There's also the cost of litigation. The litigation load in the U.S. is double that of the Euro zone, and several times higher than Japan. We can assume that there's basically zero litigation load in China, which barely has a real legal system and operates on a top-down, authoritarian, guanxi system to get things done.

Mind you, I'm not saying we should become like China; they have terrible problems of their own, namely a seething rage among the common people that occasionally boils over when the corruption by the Party becomes too egregious. They're a ticking time bomb. It may be in fact that we will get our manufacturing back simply by sitting back and waiting for them to implode.



LOL in my opinion, corporations should not be taxed. Taxing a corporation is, indirectly, taxing its employees and customers. It feels good ideologically, but it's only hurting ourselves. Imagine if we completely eliminated taxation of our corporations -- companies would come flooding back from Asia and Latin America. There wouldn't be enough employees to go around, but we would see a vast general economic expansion that would make up for loss of tax revenue.
No chance. We don’t get our manufacturing back. It is already moving to other Asian countries. We look as much like a ticking time bomb as they do these days. Maybe even more so.
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Old 05-30-2020, 11:49 AM
 
11,397 posts, read 5,043,184 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blisterpeanuts View Post
Since the late 1990s, nearly all high tech devices have been manufactured in Asia, initially in Japan, Korea, and Taiwan, later in mainland China, Malaysia, and Vietnam.

Why has this happened, and is it likely that some electronics manufacturing might come back to the West? What obstacles might be preventing this?
Because American workers will not work for $20 per week and a bowl of rice and fish per day at lunch. The same applies to the textile industry and every imaginable widget that is made or assembled.


`
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Old 05-30-2020, 12:09 PM
 
1,963 posts, read 503,478 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1 View Post
Because American workers will not work for $20 per week and a bowl of rice and fish per day at lunch.
Which is code for "Americans won't pay $2,000 for something they are convinced is their right to own at a quarter that price."
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Old 05-30-2020, 01:43 PM
 
3,548 posts, read 2,252,435 times
Reputation: 8006
Quote:
Originally Posted by blisterpeanuts View Post
There's also the cost of litigation. The litigation load in the U.S. is double that of the Euro zone, and several times higher than Japan. We can assume that there's basically zero litigation load in China, which barely has a real legal system and operates on a top-down, authoritarian, guanxi system to get things done.

Mind you, I'm not saying we should become like China; they have terrible problems of their own, namely a seething rage among the common people that occasionally boils over when the corruption by the Party becomes too egregious. They're a ticking time bomb. It may be in fact that we will get our manufacturing back simply by sitting back and waiting for them to implode.



LOL in my opinion, corporations should not be taxed. Taxing a corporation is, indirectly, taxing its employees and customers. It feels good ideologically, but it's only hurting ourselves. Imagine if we completely eliminated taxation of our corporations -- companies would come flooding back from Asia and Latin America. There wouldn't be enough employees to go around, but we would see a vast general economic expansion that would make up for loss of tax revenue.
There’s zero chance that corporations would flood back because of no corporate taxes in the U.S. Tax does not wag the dog. And there are plenty of countries with lower tax rates that don’t attract this business. There’s way more to it than tax structure. And as has been posted by me many times, corporate taxation is needed because of timing differences. If you remove corporate taxation, the entire structure would need to change. That’s why the Recent TCJA Tax reform began with corporate reform. Everything revolves around it. For example, tons of profits received from corporations at the individual level or endowments go into tax deferred or tax exempt accounts. Without corporate taxation, this money would not get touched first by being hit at the corporate level.
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Old 05-30-2020, 01:59 PM
 
3,548 posts, read 2,252,435 times
Reputation: 8006
Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post
Also a barrier to USA competitiveness is:
Costs of carrying inventory of completed goods and materials. Land / buildings / insurance / taxes / Labor / Benefits / business loan interest ... are all high in USA, and the taxation of businesses in USA is no longer business 'friendly' as in incentising the business to grow. USA taxation methods discourage business in USA, especially Manf, or capital intensive industries.

:"service jobs' are not too valuable as a 'domestic value added product', and not nearly as high pay as the factory labor
I don’t think it’s true that u.s tax law discourages manufacturing. There’s 100% expensing on depreciable assets, the R&D tax credit is a 6.5 cents out of each dollar recovery of investment, and there was formally the domestic production deduction, now largely replaced with the foreign derived intangible income (the carrot) and Global Low taxed intangible income (the stick). They also rolled out the base erosion anti abuse tax, which goes after companies not located domestically.

States and local governments often bend over backwards providing property tax abatement and other payroll credits for adding jobs and or jobs with certain levels of pay. It’s easy for corporations to sit right on the Line between states or counties and pit them against each other.

Many states put on an additional layer of state specific R&D tax credits and industrial machinery credits. Manufacturers also often get preferential treatment on apportionment of state income tax with favorable factoring. They also sometimes get totally left out of the formula and states will double Or triple weight sales factor or payroll so that it “punishes“ business that doesn’t have a physical presence in the state.

Many states have indirect tax credits as well where manufacturing purchases are exempt from sales and use tax.

The problem is that tax doesn’t drive 100% business decisions. It’s only one factor of many. As a tax function you can only report to senior management your report, and often the answer is...that’s great...but..


People’s fascination with producing everything here also stems from pure ignorance. The multinationals have huge sales in Europe, Latin America, and Asia pac region. They produce there because they also source there. It’s silly to think all the production will be in a high cost of living like the U.S and then be shipped back for sales in other regions. At this point, many companies have about 1/3 of their sales in the U.S, so it only makes sense the majority of the production is elsewhere. It’s not 1950, with the worlds production base in ruin and the U.S accounts for 50% of world gdp. It’s down to 20% now.

Last edited by Thatsright19; 05-30-2020 at 02:15 PM..
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