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Old 06-01-2020, 01:55 PM
 
Location: Western NY
665 posts, read 718,723 times
Reputation: 795

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Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post

The Tijuana River has carried millions of daily gallons of sewage, including blackwater sewage and trash from dumps, from MX since the late '40s early '50s.

High levels of lead and mercury have been in that water for many decades. US companies making all that worse is bad but let's not pretend this is a new issue.

I think what you are saying is there is a prior history of people dumping trash in that state park near your house, so you felt it fine to bring in a few dump truck loads yourself. After all there is prior history, so clearly it is fine!
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Old 06-01-2020, 02:39 PM
 
9,609 posts, read 10,231,140 times
Reputation: 8396
Quote:
Originally Posted by TestEngr View Post
I think what you are saying is there is a prior history of people dumping trash in that state park near your house, so you felt it fine to bring in a few dump truck loads yourself. After all there is prior history, so clearly it is fine!

I said nothing of the sort and clearly noted that US concerns adding more pollution is a bad thing. Accurate context always matters...........in this case it muffles your implied claim that US companies have ruined The Tijuana River.
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Old 06-01-2020, 02:48 PM
 
Location: Western NY
665 posts, read 718,723 times
Reputation: 795
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
I said nothing of the sort and clearly noted that US concerns adding more pollution is a bad thing. Accurate context always matters...........in this case it muffles your implied claim that US companies have ruined The Tijuana River.
Sorry but you did say that or pretty much, ok I will modify it slightly so it is closer: I think what you are saying is there is a prior history of people dumping trash in that state park near your house, you thought it didn't look good or right, but you felt it fine to bring in a few dump truck loads yourself.

Look whatever, you think it is ok clearly though not ideal perhaps? I am not sure what you are saying. A country overwhelmed by what they have already, with sewage and waste they can't handle, so that is a given. Yes, you are right. What is it you propose if it is not ok by your statements indicating you do feel it isn't ok then? I would say it isn't ok to contribute to the problem and making it worse. Not sure what it is you are saying. If you agree making it worse is bad, how is it the electronics and manufacturing moving there helps since it clearly hasn't, and chemicals in the river are worse than past history and now are there, so you propose what exactly by your statements?
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Old 06-01-2020, 08:49 PM
 
Location: ATX-HOU
58 posts, read 16,234 times
Reputation: 83
I tend to view these types of things as supercycles.
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Old 06-02-2020, 05:46 AM
 
Location: Texas
2,372 posts, read 1,607,387 times
Reputation: 7925
Quote:
Originally Posted by blisterpeanuts View Post
Since the late 1990s, nearly all high tech devices have been manufactured in Asia, initially in Japan, Korea, and Taiwan, later in mainland China, Malaysia, and Vietnam.

Why has this happened, and is it likely that some electronics manufacturing might come back to the West? What obstacles might be preventing this?

I have my own theories, based on general knowledge of current events, but I'm not in the hardware business (well, actually I do work for a company that manufactures various types of devices with factories worldwide, but I'm not on the hardware side).

It seems to me that Westerners have a pretty good grip on research and invention, but when it comes to the nitty gritty of steadily engineering, assembling, and improving fundamental components, we lack long term focus.

The Asians, however, seem to have the patience to do repetitious, detailed work like soldering chips and other parts into tiny circuit boards. Also, they now have almost a total monopoly on chip foundries and other fundamentals of electronic products like LED displays.

This last part puzzles me the most. Why can't someone set up a plant to make LED displays in, say, Florida or Arizona, that is equally competitive, given that the components don't require tremendous hand work? Literally, it could be a machine etching or extruding some kind of material with an almost completely automated process.
You should check out TI (Texas Instruments), a great company that has been around for a long time. Most likely something you use has a TI chip or part in it. They also invented the integrated circuit in 1958.
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Old 06-02-2020, 11:45 AM
 
Location: Manchester NH
12,375 posts, read 3,629,660 times
Reputation: 3277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatsright19 View Post
Because the big money isn’t in manufacturing. That’s largely viewed as a commodity that needs to be done cheaper within reason for price and quality.

The markup is in design, marketing, after market support, ect. I’d rather have the rest of the value chain and the jobs from it.
China has by far the largest output of industrial design in the world, eons above the US.
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Old 06-02-2020, 12:03 PM
 
1,963 posts, read 503,478 times
Reputation: 3155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
China has by far the largest output of industrial design in the world, eons above the US.
What?

Do you mean manufacturing output? No question.

Or are you implying they design some great majority of significant products? (Decreasingly true from plastic toys up to CPUs.)

And eon is a time measure that makes no sense in this context.

Maybe you could try again with a real keyboard this time.
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Old 06-02-2020, 12:09 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
12,375 posts, read 3,629,660 times
Reputation: 3277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Therblig View Post
What?

Do you mean manufacturing output? No question.

Or are you implying they design some great majority of significant products? (Decreasingly true from plastic toys up to CPUs.)

And eon is a time measure that makes no sense in this context.

Maybe you could try again with a real keyboard this time.
Yeah, time in the sense of how far ahead their industry is. Like saying someone is ages ahead in this or that.

Prototypes and actual industrial design is coming more and more from China, as they have more know how in the sector and can actually model and produce goods far faster and better than in the US.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdzXFFpO4oc

But most economists on this sub-forum who worked in convincing America that China is just a cheap labor outpost, and that most of the real technical knowledge will stay in America lied. Now our communities are hollowed out and we are left more and more with financial labor and investment schemes, that includes many of the add driven software programs coming out of the US.

Even CEOs in America acknowledge this: https://www.inc.com/glenn-leibowitz/...you-think.html

Here is a quote explaining that just saying 'designed in California' does not mean the design is sent over and the Chinese just fulfill the order. In fact cheap labor isn't so abundant in China, but these electronic components can't simply be made anywhere else if you want functional unites:

"It's not designed and sent over--that sounds like there's no interaction. The truth is, the process engineering and process development associated with our products require innovation in and of itself. Not only the product but the way that it's made, because we want to make things in the scale of hundreds of millions, and we want the quality level of zero defects. That's always what we strive for, and the way that you get there, particularly when you're pushing the envelope in the type of materials that you have, and the precision that your specifications are forcing, requires a kind of hand-in-glove partnership. You don't do it by throwing it over the chasm. It would never work. I can't imagine how that would be."


That's not including the chemical products manufactured in China, the elements and construction are not a product of US innovation just because it has American branding.

But economists are social scientists so they don't understand this and would rather pillage America and talk about how cheap mass consumerism is.

Last edited by Winterfall8324; 06-02-2020 at 01:19 PM..
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Old 06-02-2020, 12:24 PM
 
1,963 posts, read 503,478 times
Reputation: 3155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
But economists are social scientists so they don't understand this and would rather pillage America and talk about how cheap mass consumerism is.
Good thing I don't think much of economists.

I think your case is overstated on any basis, though. China's "design" services tend to be mid-value and adaptive, oriented towards matching product demand to manufacturing optimization, not innovative or exploratory. Finding a clever way to cut costs on ergonomic mop handles is not game-changing.
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Old 06-02-2020, 12:40 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
12,375 posts, read 3,629,660 times
Reputation: 3277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Therblig View Post
Good thing I don't think much of economists.

I think your case is overstated on any basis, though. China's "design" services tend to be mid-value and adaptive, oriented towards matching product demand to manufacturing optimization, not innovative or exploratory. Finding a clever way to cut costs on ergonomic mop handles is not game-changing.
I don't know if that is speculative or true, but much of the actual practical output our consumer market is based on comes from China.

Innovation in that sector as well; we no doubt have a top level pool of software engineers, and some young people with new marketing schemes called 'start-ups', but we end up with the short stick because our society is now a part of the global supply chain as consumers first, Asia as our supplier, and Africa as a secondary market from which throw away goods are sent inadvertently handicapping any social/economic development in those countries.

The economy isn't just a balance sheet, its the means by which we interact and build our social system. America's has been destroyed by off shoring and the wish washy dreams of global investors who think cheap goods and higher profit margins means a better society.

Germany in the 19th century was made up of regional industries with their own craft skills and knowledge passed down generation to generation. It creates a cooperative atmosphere that allows small folk and small communities to prosper.

Our industry leaders however have been left as glorified money bundlers and financial speculators.

But the Milton Friedman acolytes on this sub-forum celebrate such things and pretend that east Asia is just cheap labor and national identity doesn't matter, just capital appreciation.

I'd rather live in a primitive economy where our economy is more cooperative than an advanced global consumer oriented system where we have pure dependency on China and our businesses fight over third party contracts in Asia and the people are left more socially isolated than ever.

But alas nothing will change.
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