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Old 05-28-2020, 02:05 PM
 
1,785 posts, read 1,155,915 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tickyul View Post
Hum, how much do you think a Blu Ray DVD-player made in the USA would cost, then compare
that cost with China, you get your answer.
Follow the money. Always, follow the money.
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Old 05-28-2020, 02:10 PM
 
1,963 posts, read 503,478 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WoodburyWoody View Post
Follow the money. Always, follow the money.
Surprising how often it leads to the consumer.
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Old 05-28-2020, 03:21 PM
 
3,548 posts, read 2,252,435 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Therblig View Post
Surprising how often it leads to the consumer.
Yep, the customer is the boss and they can fire everyone from the ceo on down simply by taking their money somewhere else.


People want their phone or tv made in America...until the price triples.
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Old 05-28-2020, 04:46 PM
 
Location: Western NY
665 posts, read 718,723 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatsright19 View Post

People want their phone or tv made in America...until the price triples.
An MIT (MIT technology review 2016 article) study from a few years ago said making an iPhone in US adds $30 to $40. Add all the parts/components for another $30 to $40. That is $60 to make the phone and all its parts in USA. The expensive one was the rare earth metals in there which are no longer available in the US, so that can't be done as of this writing. So rare metals are another industry killed by moving everything out of USA.

But with extra employment in USA, thus not high unemployment (or really UNDER-employment so people cutting grass and painting walls not being manufacturing engineers) and all the issues it spreads, chances are it is easier to make $60 extra dollars within the couple years when you buy the latest phone. Better jobs means you can surely make $60 in two years basically, or the replacement cycle some use, though I tend to keep mine longer than 2 years.

Plus not exposing the world to chemical dumping in places, and worker safety with no labor abuse, plus mentioned better jobs in US, all well worth it.

Last edited by TestEngr; 05-28-2020 at 05:08 PM..
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Old 05-28-2020, 05:36 PM
 
Location: Moving?!
503 posts, read 156,460 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TestEngr View Post
An MIT (MIT technology review 2016 article) study from a few years ago said making an iPhone in US adds $30 to $40. Add all the parts/components for another $30 to $40. That is $60 to make the phone and all its parts in USA. The expensive one was the rare earth metals in there which are no longer available in the US, so that can't be done as of this writing. So rare metals are another industry killed by moving everything out of USA.

But with extra employment in USA, thus not high unemployment (or really UNDER-employment so people cutting grass and painting walls not being manufacturing engineers) and all the issues it spreads, chances are it is easier to make $60 extra dollars within the couple years when you buy the latest phone. Better jobs means you can surely make $60 in two years basically, or the replacement cycle some use, though I tend to keep mine longer than 2 years.

Plus not exposing the world to chemical dumping in places, and worker safety with no labor abuse, plus mentioned better jobs in US, all well worth it.
The North American market is ~11% of global smartphone units sold. Are Chinese, Indian, and African consumers going to pay that premium for a Made in America phone?

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...les-by-region/

https://www.technologyreview.com/201...erican-iphone/
Quote:
Originally Posted by TestEngr View Post
Same story all across the US, and why US electrical engineering departments have gone from graduating 100's to multi-100's per year to only graduating handfuls, sometimes just a dozen or so.
This is vastly overstated. EE bachelor's degrees peaked at 24,547 in 1986-87 fell to 11,450 in 2009-10 and have since risen back to 16,916 in 2016-17.

https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/...t18_325.47.asp
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Old 05-28-2020, 05:42 PM
 
4,516 posts, read 3,907,405 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tickyul View Post
Hum, how much do you think a Blu Ray DVD-player made in the USA would cost, then compare
that cost with China, you get your answer.
Yes obviously manufacturers will source their parts and labor where it's cheapest.

The question on the table is, how can we re-home the full supply chain and get away from being like a 3rd World country that just assembles the parts, while the real technology makers are elsewhere.

Apple is actually an example of a company that keeps its engineering in house; they're known for their extremely detailed micrometer-scale specs, to create exactly the product they want. Then they have this relationship with Foxconn, with its factories with 30,000 employees living in dorms, who will work 24x7 to get stuff done.

Maybe the kind of products we used to build are no longer competitive today; people don't want a 40-lb all-steel Sunbeam Mixmaster as was made in the 1950s (my mother had one) because today they would cost a fortune. Such products were built like tanks and lasted for decades. A Sunbeam sales guy tried to buy my mom's Mixmaster, in fact, because even in the 1970s one could no longer obtain the same quality new.

Asian manufacturing is nimbler and they very quickly adopted the throw-away mentality of making something cheap and flimsy, good enough for 2-3 years, then toss it and replace it.

The U.S. should find the middle ground of designing great consumer products that have lasting quality, for a little more money. Tariffs will equalize the imports and then we can rebuild our supply chain.

The concern is that we will make a lot of crap domestically and people will yearn for the days of made-in-Japan quality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by riffle View Post
The North American market is ~11% of global smartphone units sold. Are Chinese, Indian, and African consumers going to pay that premium for a Made in America phone?
Those markets don't really buy $1000 iPhones, do they? China has some rich consumers but even there, Apple's been losing market share. Cheap (sub-$100) Android phones are the most common products in 3rd World and emerging 2nd World (China, India).
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Old 05-28-2020, 05:59 PM
 
Location: Western NY
665 posts, read 718,723 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riffle View Post
The North American market is ~11% of global smartphone units sold. Are Chinese, Indian, and African consumers going to pay that premium for a Made in America phone?

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...les-by-region/

https://www.technologyreview.com/201...erican-iphone/

This is vastly overstated. EE bachelor's degrees peaked at 24,547 in 1986-87 fell to 11,450 in 2009-10 and have since risen back to 16,916 in 2016-17.

https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/...t18_325.47.asp

Doing things without labor abuse, chemical dumping, and under/Un-employment are worth it my friend. Yes, people I know in India and China if they live long enough plus go without cancer, will be glad if all the dumping chemicals and labor abuse goes away by paying the extra $60 when they look back in centuries from now. Look at slavery in the US, was it truly worth it today to have done all that so that in the short run cotton was cheap back then? That is close to what you are saying. Oh sure you will say you are not saying that at all, but reality is it is close to it even if the people there get better wages then they would have otherwise.

Fancy engineering stats. I graduated electrical engineering in the 80's, I read the undergraduate program I went to had 12 graduates a few years ago. When I graduated they were close to 200. Not sure where all the EE's are getting jobs though I suspect it is mostly foreign students in those stats versus the 80's when only a few didn't already have a green card or US citizenship. I lived near several tech universities and did activities in the IEEE student group (about 5 people), nobody I heard from got a clear EE regular industry job that I heard. Most of the foreign graduates you have in those stats did get jobs back in their country when they went back I bet.

It is about being fair to ourselves here in the US. Nothing else. We should realize the lessons of US slavery and turn against abusive justifications of cheap labor and environmental abuse. Sure it isn't marked as slavery in todays world but a world power like the US, what we can't help but being abusive around the world? In a couple hundred years wait till the books write about this era, it will call the relationship the US currently has in overseas abusive I am quite certain. I want none of it. Just being fair to who we are, if we are truly world leaders we don't need those abusive relationships and they will appreciate it if we don't do that in the future.
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Old 05-28-2020, 06:05 PM
 
1,963 posts, read 503,478 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blisterpeanuts View Post
YThe question on the table is, how can we re-home the full supply chain and get away from being like a 3rd World country that just assembles the parts, while the real technology makers are elsewhere.
I think you have that backwards. Other than as related to manufacturing, can you point to significant innovation outside the US and other 'importer' countries?

We design, they build, we buy. No?
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Old 05-28-2020, 06:08 PM
 
Location: Moving?!
503 posts, read 156,460 times
Reputation: 835
Quote:
Originally Posted by blisterpeanuts View Post
Those markets don't really buy $1000 iPhones, do they? China has some rich consumers but even there, Apple's been losing market share. Cheap (sub-$100) Android phones are the most common products in 3rd World and emerging 2nd World (China, India).
The components don't cost $1,000... anyway, the point is about the larger supply chain. I suppose LG Innotek could build a separate facility across the world in the States just to make the fancy 3-camera module for the iPhone, but I bet there are significant synergies from having operations concentrated in South Korea where they can also supply cheaper cameras for cheaper phones being assembled in China.

https://www.investopedia.com/financi...an-iphone.aspx
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Old 05-28-2020, 06:16 PM
 
Location: Honolulu, HI
7,135 posts, read 2,361,067 times
Reputation: 9882
Because no one wants to pay $3000 for an iPhone, which would be the price if it was made in America.
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