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Old 06-22-2020, 09:21 AM
 
9,631 posts, read 10,250,188 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrician4you View Post
Considering most Californians come from other states then become Californians then move elsewhere your argument is moot. The same thing happening to other states now happened to california a long time ago.

I suggest people stop selling their houses to Californians. But I bet they don’t. Because ultimately money talks. You’re telling me Californians moving to other states just up and are able to completely change laws? Don’t you people vote? If there are that many Californians moving to other states to just take over like that......give me a break. There aren’t enough people to do that of everyone on california moved. Californians aren’t the Borg.
Good grief that is silly.

1). Where CA economic refugees were born does not matter.

2). And I didn't tell you CAers were moving intending to change laws. I'm saying a great number of people fleeing CA, and NY, NJ and some others who end up in say TX, Colorado, Georgia or Tennessee left in great part because of high taxes and government interference but many arrive at their new location and continue to vote for the party that drove them to move.
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Old 06-22-2020, 09:22 AM
 
9,631 posts, read 10,250,188 times
Reputation: 8452
Quote:
Originally Posted by Therblig View Post
Disagree. This is how the 0.25% lulls themselves to sleep at night, believing that everyone else is just greedy.


Let's come back to that.


I'm not sure whose posts you're reading, but none of this has anything to do with anything I've written, on C-D or in more serious venues. You're not helping your canned argument by assuming it's just the same old rusty can you think you've heard somewhere else.

As for the textbook, I long ago moved past the catechism of Econ 101 and when someone argues from those pages as if it's holy writ, I will make a few attempts to knock them off the rail and then just move on. It's an indoctrination of concocted ideas that deeply suits those who believe it... because it benefits them. Just like those devout Catholics who are sure they are in a perfect state of grace, living their lives according to the rules they were taught at 13.

When you can move past the idea that economics is in any way a science and that it consists entirely of making up postulates that kinda-semi-sorta explain the whims of human behavior (as it relates to self-preservation, mostly), and then creating closed loops of logic using those postulates, you might be able to find the doorknob. If, on the other hand, the endless precision of the accounting component lulls you into believing that the let's-pretend side is equally rigorous... well, 'scusa me for stepping on your halo.
On top of everything else you have a messiah complex.

Last edited by EDS_; 06-22-2020 at 09:43 AM..
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Old 06-22-2020, 09:28 AM
 
Location: Olympus Mons, Mars
6,516 posts, read 9,285,671 times
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One more reason for companies to move out of California
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Old 06-22-2020, 10:44 AM
 
2,084 posts, read 541,844 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k374 View Post
One more reason for companies to move out of California
Just checking: you do know that San Francisco =/= California, in a list of ways that would fill a book?

And that the awful place you seem to envision has pretty steadily attracted and held ten percent of the US population... many of whom are 'best of the best' with few equals outside of maybe NYC... along with several of the largest companies on earth. Without any fences or force at all. Imagine that.
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Old 06-22-2020, 11:58 AM
 
4,558 posts, read 3,918,974 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
Good grief that is silly.

1). Where CA economic refugees were born does not matter.

2). And I didn't tell you CAers were moving intending to change laws. I'm saying a great number of people fleeing CA, and NY, NJ and some others who end up in say TX, Colorado, Georgia or Tennessee left in great part because of high taxes and government interference but many arrive at their new location and continue to vote for the party that drove them to move.
This is absolutely true. Millions of New Yorkers have almost turned southern Florida blue.

Thousands of Californians have made Colorado blue; the state government is now dominated by liberal Democrats, a stunning change from a generation ago.

Thousands of Californians have flooded into Arizona and made it a purple state.

I'm hearing similar reports from Utah. These western conservative/libertarian (or Mormon) regions have been Californicated and are starting to suffer the same flaws of governance that took down California itself -- high taxes, high COL, social justice agenda instead of common sense pro-growth policy.
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Old 06-22-2020, 12:18 PM
 
2,084 posts, read 541,844 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blisterpeanuts View Post
...social justice agenda instead of common sense pro-growth policy.
How odd that anyone would think people as a whole were worth more than apex predators. Right?
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Old 06-22-2020, 01:07 PM
 
Location: Boydton, VA
2,914 posts, read 3,578,453 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blisterpeanuts View Post
The rich already pay most of the income taxes. They pay high property taxes since they own a lot of property. And they pay a lot of capital gains taxes since they tend to have their wealth in investments.

Basically, the wealthiest Americans already pay a lot of the overall taxes. This "tax the rich" thing is nonsense.

People should be focusing on encouraging more business formation and growth, which is where all the money comes from. With lots of business growth, you get organic growth in government revenues from both the businesses themselves and from all the income tax, sales tax, property tax etc. paid by the employees.

Business growth is a win-win.

Taxing the dickens out of "the rich" is for losers.

SF is already experiencing a net outflow of population and businesses shutting down or moving. Now is a terrible time to slam them with yet another tax!
"1,470 households reported income of more than $1 million in 2009 but paid zero federal income taxes on it."

"Conservatives claim the wealthy are overtaxed. But the overall share of taxes paid by the top 1% and the top 5% is about their share of total income. This shows that the tax system is not progressive when it comes to the wealthy. The richest 1% pay an effective federal income tax rate of 24.7%. That is a little more than the 19.3% rate paid by someone making an average of $75,000. And 1 out of 5 millionaires pays a lower rate than someone making $50,000 to $100,000.

Conservatives claim that the estate tax is a “death tax,” wrongly implying that the tax is paid when every American dies. In fact, the tax primarily is paid by estates of multi-millionaires and billionaires. The vast majority of deaths — 99.9% — do not trigger estate taxes today." link

To me, it's pretty simple. Everything costs more today, our infrastructure is crumbling....we don't get out of that hole by cutting taxes for the wealthy. The tax structure must be rebuilt, to close loopholes and tax wealth accordingly. A transaction tax on stock trades would be a good place to start.




Regards
Gemstone1
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Old 06-22-2020, 01:13 PM
 
2,084 posts, read 541,844 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gemstone1 View Post
"1,470 households reported income of more than $1 million in 2009 but paid zero federal income taxes on it."
Quoting anomalies out of context accomplishes nothing much.

What you're saying is that 0.001% of households with something more than $1.5 billion in reported income paid no tax. Which decimal place of national figures do you think that might show up in... the fifth, or the sixth?
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Old 06-22-2020, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Raleigh
9,705 posts, read 7,310,019 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalExpectations View Post
San Francisco County Supervisor Matt Haney proposes a tax on companies with "overpaid" executives.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/17/san-...utive-tax.html

What could possibly go wrong?
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
I bet economic development types around the country are hoping SF is stupid enough make this law.
San Francisco probably could get away with it. Look, no well-paid executive lives there for the tax environment, the COL, or any other financial reason; they live there because it's a tech hub and they're convinced that they need to live in the Bay Area for their careers, and that the Bay area/San Fran is the epitome of where anyone would ever want to live.
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Old 06-22-2020, 01:28 PM
 
4,558 posts, read 3,918,974 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JONOV View Post
San Francisco probably could get away with it. Look, no well-paid executive lives there for the tax environment, the COL, or any other financial reason; they live there because it's a tech hub and they're convinced that they need to live in the Bay Area for their careers, and that the Bay area/San Fran is the epitome of where anyone would ever want to live.
I think a lot of the well-paid executives prefer to live in the smaller towns in the Valley, like Palo Alto, Sunnyvale, Redwood City, Pacifico, etc. SF itself is more of a magnet for 20-somethings living 3-4 to an apartment and trying to invent the next Google or Facebook.
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