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Old 06-22-2020, 05:58 PM
 
26,414 posts, read 15,893,402 times
Reputation: 28618

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lillie767 View Post
I don't know. How much of that cancelled student debt are you willing to pay? How much are the banks going to write off their books?

Maybe we shouldn't be encouraging everyone to go to college and be swallowed by debt. If people are $100 - $200 thousand in debt, maybe we encourage others to do the same.

Why did college costs sky rocket? Generally because students could borrow the money. If student loans were not so easy to obtain, colleges would not have been able to raise their prices so much and so fast.

Students are not making sound economic choices. For people going to college, they should be able to figure this out before they are underwater.

I generally agree with you. However...



When talking about students making "sound economic choices:" First, remember we're talking about teenagers who just recently were declared "adults."


Let's also remember that they have been brainwashed by the government at all levels (of course including their teachers) for the previous 12 years that anything less than a bachelor's degree --any bachelor's degree-- is a booby prize that will leave them living in a cardboard box under a bridge.


If they check government sources online, they will have a hard time even finding information for non-college careers, except to tell them that they're all booby prizes.


Their high school guidance counselors are never going to counsel them to look at anything other than a bachelor's degree...any kind of bachelor's degree. Even if they're seniors with a 2.0 GPA, they will be counseled to go into whatever debt is necessary to get a bachelor's degree.


So now, totally convinced by all authoritative sources that their lives will be living hell unless they have that bachelor's degree, the government offers them easy loans, telling them that they don't even have to begin paying the loans until after they get one of those juicy bachelor's degree jobs (but down in the small print...interest starts accruing from day one).


Back when I was a freshman in the early 70s, my tuition at the University of Oklahoma was $25 per credit hour. I had a part-time job making $2.50 per hour (a semester hour of tuition cost only 10 hours of labor), which means I could pay off my entire semester's tuition in half the semester.


Today at that same university, tuition is $400 per credit hour. A student would have to make $40 an hour part time to "pay as you go" as I could.



But interestingly, the federal government spends more money doling out annual college grants (that is, the total cost of the program including administration) than all the public colleges in the country collect in tuition. If the public colleges merely sent their total tuition bills to the federal government and the government merely sent them checks, it would cost no more money and require no new taxes.


However, college entrance requirements would have to tighten considerably, and a lot of the new "...Studies" degrees would have to fall by the wayside.
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Old 06-22-2020, 06:03 PM
 
2,422 posts, read 1,335,424 times
Reputation: 3783
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
I generally agree with you. However...



When talking about students making "sound economic choices:" First, remember we're talking about teenagers who just recently were declared "adults."


Let's also remember that they have been brainwashed by the government at all levels (of course including their teachers) for the previous 12 years that anything less than a bachelor's degree --any bachelor's degree-- is a booby prize that will leave them living in a cardboard box under a bridge.


If they check government sources online, they will have a hard time even finding information for non-college careers, except to tell them that they're all booby prizes.


Their high school guidance counselors are never going to counsel them to look at anything other than a bachelor's degree...any kind of bachelor's degree. Even if they're seniors with a 2.0 GPA, they will be counseled to go into whatever debt is necessary to get a bachelor's degree.


So now, totally convinced by all authoritative sources that their lives will be living hell unless they have that bachelor's degree, the government offers them easy loans, telling them that they don't even have to begin paying the loans until after they get one of those juicy bachelor's degree jobs (but down in the small print...interest starts accruing from day one).


Back when I was a freshman in the early 70s, my tuition at the University of Oklahoma was $25 per credit hour. I had a part-time job making $2.50 per hour (a semester hour of tuition cost only 10 hours of labor), which means I could pay off my entire semester's tuition in half the semester.


Today at that same university, tuition is $400 per credit hour. A student would have to make $40 an hour part time to "pay as you go" as I could.



But interestingly, the federal government spends more money doling out annual college grants (that is, the total cost of the program including administration) than all the public colleges in the country collect in tuition. If the public colleges merely sent their total tuition bills to the federal government and the government merely sent them checks, it would cost no more money and require no new taxes.


However, college entrance requirements would have to tighten considerably, and a lot of the new "...Studies" degrees would have to fall by the wayside.
Are these individual capable of making decisions or not? If not, then take away all decision making from them that has consequences.
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Old 06-22-2020, 06:18 PM
 
26,414 posts, read 15,893,402 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuiteLiving View Post
Are these individual capable of making decisions or not? If not, then take away all decision making from them that has consequences.

Of course they are. But their decisions have been fed by official misinformation for most of their lives. And the government is not offering them easy loans for vocational courses or certifications.


A couple of states actually require by law graduating high schoolers to apply for government college loans on the premise that once offered the loans, they'll be more likely to accept them.
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Old 06-22-2020, 06:31 PM
 
2,422 posts, read 1,335,424 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
Of course they are. But their decisions have been fed by official misinformation for most of their lives. And the government is not offering them easy loans for vocational courses or certifications.


A couple of states actually require by law graduating high schoolers to apply for government college loans on the premise that once offered the loans, they'll be more likely to accept them.
Have not heard of that, which states require that?

Coercion exists throughout our lives (Salesman, marketing, politicians), if they couldn’t make a good decision because of what you perceive as coercion then the age for making those decisions needs to be raised.
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Old 06-22-2020, 06:57 PM
 
26,414 posts, read 15,893,402 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuiteLiving View Post
Have not heard of that, which states require that?

Coercion exists throughout our lives (Salesman, marketing, politicians), if they couldn’t make a good decision because of what you perceive as coercion then the age for making those decisions needs to be raised.

Louisiana is one.
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Old 06-22-2020, 07:31 PM
 
2,422 posts, read 1,335,424 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
Louisiana is one.
Thanks, very interesting although it is not an absolute requirement apparently.


D. Beginning with the 2017-2018 school year, each graduating senior shall, as part of his individual graduation plan and as a requirement for graduation, complete at least one of the following steps to support a successful transition to postsecondary education or training:
1. Complete and submit to the Office of Student Financial Assistance an application for a Taylor Opportunity Program for Students (TOPS) award;
2. Complete and submit to the U.S. Department of Education a Free Application for Federal Student Aid; or
3. A parent or legal custodian, or a student legally emancipated or of the legal age of majority, may certify a
waiver in writing to the LEA if he refuses to complete such an application.
4. If a graduating senior is not able to fulfill the requirements of subsection D of this section due to extenuating circumstances, the LEA may apply for a waiver to be approved by the state superintendent of education to waive the student of this requirement for graduation.
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Old 06-22-2020, 09:07 PM
 
Location: Florida
3,096 posts, read 1,803,995 times
Reputation: 9017
I am opposed to any student loan debt forgiveness programs for two reasons.

1. What does this teach anyone except that it’s ok to be irresponsible and go in debt to the tune of tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars because at some point it will magically disappear? Let me know how that works in real life.

2. Debt forgiveness is just someone’s way of hiding the fact that I as a taxpayer will ultimately be paying that debt through increased taxes, higher interest rates, or some other method where the taxpayer gets the shaft again.

Parents who encourage their kids to assume excessive debt are just as irresponsible as the child doing it.
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Old 06-22-2020, 09:57 PM
 
Location: U.S.A., Earth
5,451 posts, read 3,977,567 times
Reputation: 5635
Our tax dollars have gone towards bailing out corporations because "they were too big to fail". They couldn't compete, they couldn't be responsible, and they cried wolf. I don't mind them going to individuals. Money's already been wasted. It's only fair.
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Old 06-22-2020, 10:09 PM
 
1,230 posts, read 718,009 times
Reputation: 2680
Yes, I want to help kids learn that borrowed money does not need to be paid back so they can buy better houses than I live in . . . after a lifetime of work.

NOT.
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Old 06-22-2020, 10:24 PM
 
Location: Formerly Pleasanton Ca, now in Marietta Ga
9,283 posts, read 6,860,043 times
Reputation: 14169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Therblig View Post
This is such a narrow viewpoint I can't quite find a way to respond in any sensible way.

Suffice it to say that I don't think the world is divided into those who get degrees and go to work for someone else, and those "start businesses" and grow them through sheer pluck and grit.

That's a vague casting of the American success mythos, which is as much wishful thinking and contrary examples as any slight truth. But we certainly like to believe that can-to-can't sweat of your brow trumps all other paths, especially that smarty-pants college learnin'.

If what you actually meant was there are several different paths to success, then never mind.
Considering the idea of paying all their student debts is silly, yeah of course you don’t have a response.
Mostly it’s people that don’t want to put in the work and sacrifice to succeed are the ones that poo poo the idea. Are you one of them?
While my ideas are not 100 percent, there is a difference as I pointed out. How many people went into heavy debt for college with the idea they were going to start a business versus those who thought they would get a good job?
What are the numbers of college grads who started a business versus those who work for others?
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