U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 06-23-2020, 08:53 AM
 
3,232 posts, read 1,556,076 times
Reputation: 5469

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Torontobase View Post
I agree! If you can’t afford school or a purchase, you can’t buy it.
So... if you can't afford a degree, you are consigned to a life of low-value, low-paid employment because everything above that requires a degree because we've evolved a system that demands even entry-level work demands one.

I'm sure some percentage here think that's entirely reasonable. And then will be happy to heap dung on such individuals because they were such WIC-sucking, iPhone-buying losers as to not better themselves.

Got it.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-23-2020, 09:03 AM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
9,031 posts, read 5,909,356 times
Reputation: 15376
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
Do you think your town with an aerospace industry is typical?
Indicative of what happens when you have smart local leadership. The site used to be an air force base. When it closed down people cried like the town would die, but the leadership found something to take its place.

Those were definitely among the best jobs in the region, and the community liked to show them off.

But they also had programs where we could work in restaurants and hotels and get credit. Local business partnerships the high school was quite proud of.

My high school was somewhat rough. Out of of a class of 850 freshmen, about 500 of us graduated. About 150 went to college right away, the most going to the local community/technical colleges or one of the two state university branches in the area. No one "forced" anything on us.

The fact is that a high schol diploma alone is not worth much on the job market. Any high school that is not promoting post-hs options would be negligent. College was pushed for the middle and upper middle class honors kids, but definitely not for all of us. They promoted the technical college and the military quite a lot on us in the regular tracks.

Last edited by redguard57; 06-23-2020 at 09:19 AM..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-23-2020, 09:22 AM
 
3,232 posts, read 1,556,076 times
Reputation: 5469
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
Indicative of what happens when you have smart local leadership.
I wouldn't disagree, but two points to consider:

First, that there are far fewer 'new industry' opportunities than there are towns that might like to hit such a jackpot.

Second, that such industries often seek to locate in an isolated small town somewhere because they're something no one else wants in their backyard. Given the choice between a rocky economic future, shrinkage, loss of younger population, etc. and... a chemical or poultry or plastics processing plant and all that goes with it, I'm not sure which choice some towns might make. If they even make the shortlist.

Second and a half, locating in Smallville is often done because they can get away with much lower payroll costs. So it's possible that residents will lose the town they are trying to save because it becomes something of a grimy industrial suburb, and at wages better than most for the area and better than nothing, but far less than they could get by doing the same job somewhere else.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-23-2020, 09:44 AM
 
635 posts, read 197,088 times
Reputation: 415
I think as far as I would go is make all loans interest free for 10 years, allow people the chance to hurry up and get them paid off... then rates go back to whatever the 2030 student loan rate is..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-23-2020, 10:42 AM
 
5,654 posts, read 3,655,675 times
Reputation: 12472
Wiping student loans away would certainly provide for the return of some quietude
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-23-2020, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Ohio
23,425 posts, read 17,255,787 times
Reputation: 20222
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheArchitect View Post
Could a cancelation or significant reduction in student debt over the next couple of years for working adults, effectively provide a boost to the housing market and also spur entrepreneurship on the heels of the economic effects of the Covid shutdown?
No.

Student loan debt, double-digit mortgage interest rates and recessions did not stop Boomers and Tweeners from buying homes or engaging in entrepreneurship.

Housing market?

You smell like a FIRE nutter.

You know, an economy based on Finance, Insurance & Real Estate.

Why are you obsessed with people owning homes? So they can use their home as a big giant friggin' credit card? Because, basically, that's what a HELOC is.

That goes back to the FIRE thing.

Student loan debt didn't stop people from creating dot.coms, or were you not alive in the 90s?

You know, if they stopped buying a new car every 2 years, they could dump the $329/month car payment and the $200/month full-coverage insurance that goes with it and they'd have money.

Also, there's no law that says one must buy a McMansion for their first home. They can buy a smaller "starter home." Do you even know what that is?
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-23-2020, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Ohio
23,425 posts, read 17,255,787 times
Reputation: 20222
Quote:
Originally Posted by Therblig View Post
So... if you can't afford a degree, you are consigned to a life of low-value, low-paid employment because everything above that requires a degree because we've evolved a system that demands even entry-level work demands one.
There's no law that says you have to go to Harvard or some other private college that charges $90,000+ year.

There's no law that says you cannot attend a cheaper 2-year college before transferring to a more expensive 4-year university.

There's no law that says you cannot work whilst attending college.

Not too long ago, I went back and got 2 additional undergraduate degrees, 2 certificates, and 2 graduate degrees and I didn't need student loans.

I worked. I shared housing to reduce costs. I didn't spend $12 at Starsux every day. I lived near campus and on a bus line so I didn't need a car, or the car payments, insurance, gasoline costs and such that go with it to save money.

On top of that, I even managed to save money so that when I got into grad school, I only had to share an apartment with 1 person instead of 4 others.

It can be done, but people have to want to do it, and they just don't wanna, so it's not my problem.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-23-2020, 11:47 AM
 
Location: Ohio
23,425 posts, read 17,255,787 times
Reputation: 20222
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
When talking about students making "sound economic choices:" First, remember we're talking about teenagers who just recently were declared "adults."
Immaterial and irrelevant.

They have parents, family, school guidance counselors and a host of other resources available to them to help guide them.

Those resources also include the financial aid office at the university, with whom they may discuss options.

Stop acting like they're orphans dumped on the planet two weeks before enrollment starts.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-23-2020, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
9,031 posts, read 5,909,356 times
Reputation: 15376
Quote:
Originally Posted by Therblig View Post
I wouldn't disagree, but two points to consider:

First, that there are far fewer 'new industry' opportunities than there are towns that might like to hit such a jackpot.

Second, that such industries often seek to locate in an isolated small town somewhere because they're something no one else wants in their backyard. Given the choice between a rocky economic future, shrinkage, loss of younger population, etc. and... a chemical or poultry or plastics processing plant and all that goes with it, I'm not sure which choice some towns might make. If they even make the shortlist.

Second and a half, locating in Smallville is often done because they can get away with much lower payroll costs. So it's possible that residents will lose the town they are trying to save because it becomes something of a grimy industrial suburb, and at wages better than most for the area and better than nothing, but far less than they could get by doing the same job somewhere else.
Well, it was a small town, but is now part of one of the faster growing areas of Texas not adjacent to one of the 4 big cities. The economy there is diverse now & doesn't qualify as a Smallville anymore and is now a smallish medium sized city in a region with several of that size.

In my dad's day, life revolved around farming and that airbase. When it closed, the town lost a good 20% of its population at the same time agriculture was becoming non-viable for anyone not part of an agribusiness conglomerate. Everyone was crying. We also had textile plants. They made underwear for Fruit of the Loom lol. That industry was in decline since the 70s but the last plant held on until 2003.

But they managed to turn things around and are now reasonably prosperous.

Another big success was developing the health care infrastructure. When they invested in a 2nd hospital I at first thought it was enormous waste of resources. But then they got the state university system to put a branch of their medical school there which was a major boon, the hospital specialized and it has turned into a whole complex.

Other places I can think of where colleges are crucial to local economies are places like Rochester NY.

Getting to the point of the thread - local leadership invested in the kinds of jobs for which college educations add value & are necessary. That's why it's done well. They didn't divest in colleges - they very much wanted them. If it were up to these people on this thread they'd be training a bunch of plumbers for a town where people are moving out and those remaining can't afford to hire a plumber. So it makes PERFECT sense for the high schools to promote college - most decent jobs of the future require it. The jobs that don't require college are becoming fewer and/or paying less.

I just checked the website now and they do promote non-bachelor degree options. Their recent campaign was for all (or as many as possible) students to commit to a 1 or 2-year certification/Associates, a bachelor degree, or a military enlistment. They have a "college and CAREER academy" that has apprenticeships in things like HVAC, welding, IT, cybersecurity hospitality, audio/video production, health care jobs like medical or dental assisting, veterinary tech, etc.,, etc., According to people here they're all pushing gender studies degrees. It's just absurd.

Last edited by redguard57; 06-23-2020 at 12:19 PM..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-23-2020, 11:59 AM
 
3,232 posts, read 1,556,076 times
Reputation: 5469
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
They have parents, family, school guidance counselors and a host of other resources available to them to help guide them.
To committing to the four-year degree that has the highest demand and salary curve in about five years.

Quote:
Those resources also include the financial aid office at the university, with whom they may discuss options.
Such as deciding which college to go to for the four-year degree that has the best projected employment options.

Quote:
Stop acting like they're orphans dumped on the planet two weeks before enrollment starts.
When was the last time you encountered a 17/18-year old or the vast majority of their families? 95% of them are drooling morons in any consideration of their future choices, who can't think past what seem like stratospheric starting salaries in really cool ciities.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2022, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top