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Student loan debt, double-digit mortgage interest rates and recessions did not stop Boomers and Tweeners from buying homes or engaging in entrepreneurship.
Housing market?
You smell like a FIRE nutter.
You know, an economy based on Finance, Insurance & Real Estate.
Why are you obsessed with people owning homes? So they can use their home as a big giant friggin' credit card? Because, basically, that's what a HELOC is.
That goes back to the FIRE thing.
Student loan debt didn't stop people from creating dot.coms, or were you not alive in the 90s?
You know, if they stopped buying a new car every 2 years, they could dump the $329/month car payment and the $200/month full-coverage insurance that goes with it and they'd have money.
Also, there's no law that says one must buy a McMansion for their first home. They can buy a smaller "starter home." Do you even know what that is?
How much was college back then? Maybe some didn't even need loans and paid off their tuition by saving money or able to have parents foot the bill due to lower tuition. So many options today to waste money on and higher prices, less so back in the day.
My parents were 25 years old and bought a newly built home in 1980 for $50,000. My mother was a part time bank teller and my father was a store department manager. They both went to a four year state college and tuition was paid by their parents. Their parents weren't rich, their fathers had blue collar jobs and they had multiple siblings.
Young people should explore these areas before they commit to loans and debt. Our country and economy needs these jobs, not another degree in latest trend program.
Building and Construction Trades Apprenticeship Programs
Painters and Allied Trades Finishing Trades Institute
Ironworkers
Heat and Frost Insulators
Boilermakers National Joint Apprenticeship Program
Electrical Workers/National Electrical Contractors Association National Joint Apprenticeship Council
Bricklayers Masonry Institute
Elevator Constructors National Elevator Industry Educational Program
Plasterers and Cement Masons
The Sheet Metal Workers International Training Institute
Plumbers and Pipe Fitters
United Union of Roofers and Waterproofers
Operating Engineers
Manufacturing Training and Apprenticeship Programs
It's very unfortunate for our society that people who work with the hands or actually produce a product are generally viewed as not as smart or not as good as people who go to college. We are losing a generation of workers and tradespeople. Who do they think are going to build those houses for college people when $100,000k of student debt is forgiven?
the unfortunate fact of the matter is that blue collar jobs have been stigmatized, and we've all been brainwashed to believe that if we don't have a degree, we are failures.
there are many employers/jobs out there that require degrees when often times, it provides no added benefit to their job function at all.
Last edited by blahblahyoutoo; 06-23-2020 at 12:51 PM..
Actually, there are good reasons to do something about the massive balloon of student debt, over and above any other forms of "relief." It might be that some forgiveness — perhaps percentage based — is an appropriate form of reparations for what we've forced new adults to conform to for the last couple of decades.
If we're going to structure the world so that a degree is needed for every basically entry-level and on-the-job-trained position, we've forced millions and millions of young, naive adults into a college path at any cost so that they will be employable at 23. (And the perpetual war chant, even here, is that anyone unemployable is so because they "didn't work hard enough" or "didn't bother to improve themselves" or such.) Secondary education is no longer an option for those who truly need four or more years of intensive study in a field; it's a period of national service, idly mopping floors to prove you're worth hiring for a job absolutely no candidate knows anything about until they are trained in it.
So we drove this cycle of overloading colleges and the truly first-rank ones still accepted the best for the traditional reasons... while Universities of Southern Midwestern Nowheresville jacked themselves into faux elitism and championship football teams as marketing arms and drastically overloaded campuses at skyrocketing tuition rates... because all these 18yos who didn't want to be unemployed bums had to go somewhere and get into some program that would spit out a sheepskin.
So it's a shared fault, and a shared problem, and needs a shared solution.
What it does for "home ownership" and "entrepreneurship" and other stupid ship is irrelevant. These millions should not have to wear financial shackles for a large part of their careers when in the end, they were our choice for them, not their choice for themselves.
(And no, it doesn't make an effing bit of difference whether the debt is for the finest-kind Systems Architecture degree or the "Underwater Basketweaving" sure to come up in the next three posts.)
and it will perpetuate the moral hazard of bailouts. students will think that they will be bailed out for every financial mistake that is made. schools will continue to overcharge for tuition, room, board and BOOKS (OMG don't get me started on books).
the only way to break the cycle is to let the system fail. when the populace learns that higher education is not required, only then will they stop sending kids to colleges, college tuitions will revert to fair value and the gov't should just GTFO guaranteeing loans.
You miss my entire point: I believe an entire generation or two was forced at economic gunpoint to take on those debts. As such, the obligation is more than theirs as individuals.
who did?
i'm not entirely disagreeing with you, but there are alternative choices out there.
there's a big price difference between a $5k community college, a $10k state college, and a $60k out of state private university. over 4 years, ignoring grants and aid, we're talking about a $200k+ difference in the cost for a degree.
I personally have friends that chose more expensive schools because they were more prestigious, or were farther away from home in a city they wanted to be in, or because they had a bigger reputation for being a fun, party school.
instead of being financially responsible, they based their choices on superficial criteria that had nothing to do with education.
Location: Formerly Pleasanton Ca, now in Marietta Ga
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blahblahyoutoo
who did?
i'm not entirely disagreeing with you, but there are alternative choices out there.
there's a big price difference between a $5k community college, a $10k state college, and a $60k out of state private university. over 4 years, ignoring grants and aid, we're talking about a $200k+ difference in the cost for a degree.
I personally have friends that chose more expensive schools because they were more prestigious, or were farther away from home in a city they wanted to be in, or because they had a bigger reputation for being a fun, party school.
instead of being financially responsible, they based their choices on superficial criteria that had nothing to do with education.
Not to mention saving on going to a college closer and living at home can save a lot of money. For example I could have gone to Cal State East Bay and driven 8 miles to and from living at home. Per year that would cost about $7,000.
The local junior college is $2246 per year inc parking which was 3.8 mile from home. So transferring after two years there and two years at Cal State living at home will cost you $18,492 for a 4 year degree.
All of that WITHOUT financial aid. You could work a part time job and graduate with no debt.
People that at $40K, $100, $200K, or more in student debt, that was on them. They didn't have to go out of state or to that prestigious school. It was a choice if they thought it would be more fun, get away from parents, or that the school would have more prestige and land them a better job. College is an investment and like all investments in that you look at risk and return.
My friend went to Cal State east bay, not a prestigious school at all, yet landed a job with a big accounting firm in San Francisco. He went their because his parents paid and couldn't afford to go in debt for a better school even though he could have gotten into Cal or Stanford. He still got a good job and no debt.
An economic gun... ha ha, that's funny. Nothing like exaggerating a little. Some posters are so dramatic
How does this idea help current students? Is it kind of a kick the can down the road solution? Forgive everyone's current SL debt and then 10 years from now do it over again and so on and so on? I can tell you if I had known this would be a thing I would have lived little higher on the hog in grad school Instead of living with roommates in sketchy apartment complexes I could have lived by myself in the nicest areas and then gotten the taxpayers to pay for it a few years later
exactly, the crux of the issue is the ever increasing cost of college. this does nothing to remedy that.
stop stigmatizing blue collar jobs.
stop encouraging every HS student to go to college.
encourage skilled trades.
end gov't backed student loans.
who did?
i'm not entirely disagreeing with you, but there are alternative choices out there.
there's a big price difference between a $5k community college, a $10k state college, and a $60k out of state private university. over 4 years, ignoring grants and aid, we're talking about a $200k+ difference in the cost for a degree.
I personally have friends that chose more expensive schools because they were more prestigious, or were farther away from home in a city they wanted to be in, or because they had a bigger reputation for being a fun, party school.
instead of being financially responsible, they based their choices on superficial criteria that had nothing to do with education.
Left out of these conversations is that living costs and the opportunity cost of not working are typically the most significant costs a student entails. I took out about 30k of loans over 7 years of getting a BA + MA and it was all subsidy to pay my bills. I could actually pay tuition out of my existing grants/scholarships and job. It was when I quit my job to focus on school when things really racked up.*
In-state tuition for most state university systems is near break-even point for those colleges. Anything less than 10-12k they are not really profiting from it and dependent on offsets from the state. If they can get it lower than that it means your state is more generous. Higher, and it means your state is more stingy.
The international cost to educate a student in a G-7 country is about $13k year more or less. That's just what it costs. Consider that K-12 in the U.S. costs about $14k per student. College spend somewhat more than they do since they offer far more services, for an average of around 18k per student at a public college. Anything less than that, they are not really profiting from it and dependent on offsets from the state. If they can get it lower than that it means your state is more generous. Higher, and it means your state is more stingy.
Cheaper is not always better too. If a student is accepted at a top 120 college, my recommendation is to go. He/she should seriously weight the risks of NOT taking that chance and settling for their local community college. The networks can be invaluable and you could be putting hundreds of thousands of lifetime earnings on the table to save 20k up front. Not a good deal. I look at it like getting best bang for the buck. I applied to about 15 colleges, I went to the one that was highest ranking for the least amount of money. I turned down a couple privates that were about equally as good but for double the money. I wouldn't be where I am today nor would I have married the woman I did had I stayed at the community college in my hometown. I would have saved 30k yes, but given up a couple million. You only get one shot at this. Going back to college in your 30s-50s is not the same, so you want to make it count.
And yes, I took a few summer classes at the community college and saved some bucks on some gen ed credits. That is what they are for.
*This is not to say that tuition is not a problem - since it has about doubled in 13 years at that alma mater. That is wrong, we shouldn't tolerate it, and it is mostly the fault of state policies - both for failing to subsidize colleges appropriately, and for not auditing them enough for why their tuition is going up. The states OWN the state colleges, they should be able to control them.
Last edited by redguard57; 06-23-2020 at 01:41 PM..
To committing to the four-year degree that has the highest demand and salary curve in about five years.
Such as deciding which college to go to for the four-year degree that has the best projected employment options.
When was the last time you encountered a 17/18-year old or the vast majority of their families? 95% of them are drooling morons in any consideration of their future choices, who can't think past what seem like stratospheric starting salaries in really cool ciities.
Yes, yes, only stupid people listen to other stupid people, so it's all their (generational) faults.
Got it.
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Instead of living with roommates in sketchy apartment complexes I could have lived by myself in the nicest areas and then gotten the taxpayers to pay for it a few years later 
