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Old Yesterday, 08:57 AM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
16,366 posts, read 13,131,087 times
Reputation: 12312

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eeko156 View Post
These are all great points. I think the bottom line, though, is taxpayers don't want to pay for grads to buy new houses. Many taxpayers can't even buy homes. It seems a "luxury", unlike food and healthcare which are needed to survive.

Remember, you are talking about GRAD students, who generally have fairly high income earning potential. It would be kind of hard for an undergrad to rack up that much debt at a public university.
I have a 'Grad student' living at home. He has no debt because of scholarships and grants. But he has fear about doing it himself. He is working 'enough' to pay his bills at a local college. But he has a sought after PHD that he never used and now is probably meaningless.

Fifty years ago most of us could not wait to be on our own. Of course it was considerably cheaper to live; but the wages were also lower. Automation and AI are also targeting jobs that at one time were safe and cushy - not anymore. It is a hard world for many seeking their station in life. But I still think that personal responsibility has to play a role for a healthy society. When we start distributing wealth it never ends up in the right hands.
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Old Yesterday, 09:24 AM
 
724 posts, read 541,062 times
Reputation: 1543
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eeko156 View Post
These are all great points. I think the bottom line, though, is taxpayers don't want to pay for grads to buy new houses. Many taxpayers can't even buy homes. It seems a "luxury", unlike food and healthcare which are needed to survive.
.
This seems to represent the typical thread sentiment to this point. But I would ask, how much of a tax burden would this proposal actually represent for the average taxpayer? Maybe a few more dollars per yr over a few yrs? Remember we're talking about a brief cancellation/reduction for current debtholders in response to an particular economic situation, not a permanent arrangement. I dont know what the exact numbers would be and am not sure why my own answer is on this matter, but I dont think this would represent a real burden on middle class taxpayers.

If I could be convinced that for a few dollars more in taxes over a few years, a meaningful boost in business startup activity and home ownership would be spurred, its something I could possibly get behind.
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Old Yesterday, 09:28 AM
 
3,548 posts, read 2,252,435 times
Reputation: 8001
Nice.

So not only did I have to compete with people for school funding and jobs after...but then I had to pay for my school...have other people have theirs wiped clean so then I can then compete against them in the housing market. I get a good job, and pay tens of thousands in taxes...so that I could pay for my school and then I get the opportunity to pay for yours again too.

Where do I sign up for this plan?
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Old Yesterday, 09:30 AM
 
3,548 posts, read 2,252,435 times
Reputation: 8001
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheArchitect View Post
This seems to represent the typical thread sentiment to this point. But I would ask, how much of a tax burden would this proposal actually represent for the average taxpayer? Maybe a few more dollars per yr over a few yrs? Remember we're talking about a brief cancellation/reduction for current debtholders in response to an particular economic situation, not a permanent arrangement. I dont know what the exact numbers would be and am not sure why my own answer is on this matter, but I dont think this would represent a real burden on middle class taxpayers.

If I could be convinced that for a few dollars more in taxes over a few years, a meaningful boost in business startup activity and home ownership would be spurred, its something I could possibly get behind.

What about people who paid for their school? What about parents who saved for their kids education?

We could have used that money elsewhere for investment or other personal fulfillment.

The “it’s only going to cost you a couple dollars argument” is trash.

And then you have the additional real costs and opportunity cost I mentioned in my post right before this.
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Old Yesterday, 09:33 AM
 
96 posts, read 25,381 times
Reputation: 121
Of course it would. And many of these people are doctors, lawyers, engineers, MBAs, nurses, teachers. They have jobs and get decent pay but to get those those jobs they needed an education and, for many, loans were how they were able to afford to be able to go to school. And, yes, many even worked while in school but tuition and fees are expensive.

I am also sick of people thinking trades are the be all end all. First, the trades are flooded here and many programs have a 1-2 year waiting list. Second, it is not an automatic money maker because you have to actually find work and have it pay well. The ones who make the most are typically independent contractors and it takes awhile to build up contacts and referrals in order to get to a good level of income as someone who is self-employed. But, most importantly, it is insulting to all the great tradesman out there when people just assume it is easy and anyone can do these jobs. GOOD trades people are skilled and have a talent for their field and it is not easy. There are plenty of idiots with tools out there who scrape by because they suck at their job.
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Old Yesterday, 10:00 AM
Status: "flights are frequently cancelled" (set 1 day ago)
 
99 posts, read 18,041 times
Reputation: 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by OtterTrees View Post
Of course it would. And many of these people are doctors, lawyers, engineers, MBAs, nurses, teachers. They have jobs and get decent pay but to get those those jobs they needed an education and, for many, loans were how they were able to afford to be able to go to school. And, yes, many even worked while in school but tuition and fees are expensive.

I am also sick of people thinking trades are the be all end all. First, the trades are flooded here and many programs have a 1-2 year waiting list. Second, it is not an automatic money maker because you have to actually find work and have it pay well. The ones who make the most are typically independent contractors and it takes awhile to build up contacts and referrals in order to get to a good level of income as someone who is self-employed. But, most importantly, it is insulting to all the great tradesman out there when people just assume it is easy and anyone can do these jobs. GOOD trades people are skilled and have a talent for their field and it is not easy. There are plenty of idiots with tools out there who scrape by because they suck at their job.
No one is suggesting that learning a trade is easy nor is it a guaranteed money maker. But pushing all high school graduates into college doesn't benefit the student or society. The links are posted are from the union websites. This Old House highlights some of the apprentices working on the project house.

Trades should be considered a viable career path for smart talented young people as an alternative to college. Unfortunately, in the US particularly, trades don't have the bragging appeal that a four year college has. Doubly unfortunate is the low graduation rates from colleges. " On average, just 58 percent of students who started college in the fall of 2012 had earned any degree six years later, according to the National Student Clearinghouse Research Center."

People have to explore all opportunities for advancement. Trades should be an integral part of that discussion.
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Old Yesterday, 11:22 AM
 
1,956 posts, read 1,070,006 times
Reputation: 2805
Let's pay for their cars, too, so we can boost auto manufacturing. :-)

No. Taxpayers should not have to carry the student debt burden of grad students.
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Old Yesterday, 11:37 AM
 
1,963 posts, read 503,478 times
Reputation: 3155
It could well boost home ownership. To which my response is kinda... "So what?"

It would do nothing for 'entrepreneurship' since we have been drunk on that fantasy for decades.
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Old Yesterday, 11:40 AM
 
4,516 posts, read 3,907,405 times
Reputation: 10761
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eeko156 View Post
Let's pay for their cars, too, so we can boost auto manufacturing. :-)

No. Taxpayers should not have to carry the student debt burden of grad students.
Yes, let's forgive:

- student loans
- car loans
- mortgages (so they can "buy" bigger houses)
- credit card balances (so they can get out of the hole of debt)
- personal loans. (Because, why not? Money grows on trees!!!)

While we're at it, let's make food and clothing and medicine free. Because these are essential to life. A Big Mac and large fries is a human right.


What could possibly go wrong?
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Old Yesterday, 11:47 AM
 
951 posts, read 320,097 times
Reputation: 3272
What about the grads that paid for their educations?

Do they get full refunds?
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