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Old 06-20-2020, 01:44 PM
 
5,107 posts, read 2,201,687 times
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Could it? Yes. Most likely. Should we? Hell no!

And last time i checked OP, the housing market doesn't need a boost.
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Old 06-20-2020, 01:55 PM
 
5,107 posts, read 2,201,687 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hulburt1 View Post
Go after colleges. they need stick in this game. most colleges caused the problem.
I'd love to see some system where colleges were paid over 10,15,20 or 30 year terms based on a percentage of the graduates income. Then the colleges would actually have some skin in the game to accept students they think will be successful and also help them along the way in advancing their careers.

You could still also give the option to pay a flat amount upfront. Or make larger down payments that reduce the percentage of income to be taken out later. But no more federal student loans.
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Old 06-20-2020, 02:07 PM
 
2,012 posts, read 519,230 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill the Butcher View Post
And last time i checked OP, the housing market doesn't need a boost.
Probably better not to get distracted by the specifics of the OP; relieving this vast and widespread debt would have largely positive economic benefits (collectively as well as for the individuals); not sure it's productive to limit the positives to one or two categories.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill the Butcher View Post
I'd love to see some system where colleges were paid over 10,15,20 or 30 year terms based on a percentage of the graduates income. Then the colleges would actually have some skin in the game to accept students they think will be successful and also help them along the way in advancing their careers.
Does "gasoline on a fire" bring up any useful images? The very core of the problem is the relentless sell of four-year degrees as essential job tickets, which they were never, ever meant to be. Your proposal is to make it even more... so.
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Old 06-20-2020, 04:09 PM
 
Location: interior Alaska
5,033 posts, read 3,739,044 times
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If loan forgiveness isn't an option, the regulations disallowing student loan debt from being discharged with bankruptcy need to be lifted. Because student loans extend a huge amount of credit to people who have very little income or experience, it's predictable that there going to be a pretty high rate of goofing up, especially given how much pressure it put on kids to go to college and get their magic piece of paper. We have options for people who get themselves in every other kind of (legal) financial hole, no matter how foolishly they behaved, because at some point it's better for everyone if a person can get back on their financial feet rather than floundering indefinitely. Why should a person who runs up a huge debt by shopping or gambling be able to declare bankruptcy, but not someone who just chose their degree program poorly?
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Old 06-20-2020, 04:16 PM
 
2,012 posts, read 519,230 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frostnip View Post
...someone who just chose their degree program poorly?
I object to this as a blanket condemnation. The notion that only those who majored in "Underwater Basketweaving" are struggling with student loans is complete BS... there are lawyers, doctors, even sainted IT workers who are just as crushed between a huge loan and modest (or overstretched) income. There are a lot of factors that might keep even a mythical Hard Working American from getting ahead on a mortage-sized loan, starting at 24.

The degree undertaken should be the least part of the consideration, despite all rampant snottiness at anything not considered this year's first-class job ticket.
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Old 06-20-2020, 04:58 PM
 
Location: interior Alaska
5,033 posts, read 3,739,044 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Therblig View Post
I object to this as a blanket condemnation. The notion that only those who majored in "Underwater Basketweaving" are struggling with student loans is complete BS... there are lawyers, doctors, even sainted IT workers who are just as crushed between a huge loan and modest (or overstretched) income. There are a lot of factors that might keep even a mythical Hard Working American from getting ahead on a mortage-sized loan, starting at 24.

The degree undertaken should be the least part of the consideration, despite all rampant snottiness at anything not considered this year's first-class job ticket.
Oh, sure. Maybe "chose unfortunately" would have been a better choice of words. There are lots of reasons a particular degree program wouldn't work out financially for someone, some within their control, others outside it. That's basically my point - we penalize people for the misfortune or innocent error of studying something that didn't pay off in later income far more than we penalize people who do things that are objectively incorrect choices like spending their entire paycheck betting on the ponies. It's not really reasonable to expect 17-year-olds en masse to predict what they have the aptitude for, what will pay well, what the job market will look like in 2-8 years, what school will best prepare them for and connect them with future employment, etc. with a high rate of accuracy - it's a gamble even if the person is making an effort to do everything right. And that's not even including the "crap happens" factor, like getting ill or having to leave school for some personal reason, that might lead to someone investing a bunch of loans into a program which they then don't finish, or don't finish promptly. I just think it's ridiculous that someone who, say, goes into the hole buying expensive cars at high interest rates has an option to discharge their debts, but someone who mistakenly thought their degree program was going to lead to a living wage job cannot.

And that's not even touching on the idea that higher education has value beyond higher lifetime income potential.
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Old 06-20-2020, 05:03 PM
 
12,256 posts, read 9,696,504 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
It’s not a debt forgiveness it means I pay for your worthless masters in political science instead of you
Both Nike’s CEO Mark Parker and Target’s CEO Brian Cornell received degrees in political science.

No degree is useless. A person's personal trajectory is a direct result of the choices they make. Not a piece of paper.
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Old 06-20-2020, 06:07 PM
 
11,796 posts, read 13,676,321 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlygal View Post
Both Nike’s CEO Mark Parker and Target’s CEO Brian Cornell received degrees in political science.

No degree is useless. A person's personal trajectory is a direct result of the choices they make. Not a piece of paper.
While those two were Political Science degree rockstars, most are not.

My wife's uncle dropped out of college in his sophomore year and worked for the same company for over 40 years retiring as the CEO. Company did almost 20 billion last year. So like Bill Gates/Mark Zuckerberg, some dropouts become superstars, others become dishwashers.
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Old 06-20-2020, 06:15 PM
 
Location: Northern Virginia
1,624 posts, read 616,048 times
Reputation: 4142
If I can't trust you to pay off one loan, why would I trust you to pay off another? I know folks with massive student loan debt and well-paying jobs who'd rather go on vacation 5 times a year than pay those student loans off in a hurry.
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Old 06-20-2020, 06:29 PM
 
2,012 posts, read 519,230 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frostnip View Post
And that's not even touching on the idea that higher education has value beyond higher lifetime income potential.
Welcome to Phase II. I think you're the first.
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