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Old 06-20-2020, 06:34 PM
 
3,232 posts, read 1,565,926 times
Reputation: 5469

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Veritas Vincit View Post
If I can't trust you to pay off one loan, why would I trust you to pay off another? I know folks with massive student loan debt and well-paying jobs who'd rather go on vacation 5 times a year than pay those student loans off in a hurry.
Yep, another one of those Cadillac welfare queens. Oughta be hunted down like dogs.

Student loans are a problem because of the trifecta:
  1. We've pushed 18yos into college at any cost, literally.
  2. Many have no family means or qualify for significant grants and scholarships. (Those that do go to truly elite schools for far less net cost.)
  3. They have no better idea of their career success than anyone else, especially if they make the mistake of grinding through a job-ticket process because everything else is such a big waste of time and money etc.
So, young and misinformed and misguided, they roll the dice and guess what: They don't end up making $100k a year for Google at 26.

So maybe equating student loans and general financial sense is not worthwhile. After all, nearly everyone screws up with their first credit cards, too. The smart ones don't do it again. And facing a 3-4 years of annual income debt before you buy your first new car tends to smarten up a lot of people.
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Old 06-20-2020, 07:21 PM
 
Location: Flyover part of Virginia
2,794 posts, read 1,397,455 times
Reputation: 3953
The only thing student loan "forgiveness" would do is sink America even deeper into bankruptcy and financial ruin.

For people who think that student loan "forgiveness" would boost the economy: why stop at student loans? Why not "forgive" all debt- auto loan, home loan, credit card, etc?
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Old 06-20-2020, 07:40 PM
 
3,544 posts, read 4,730,511 times
Reputation: 5369
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatsright19 View Post
What about people who paid for their school? What about parents who saved for their kids education?

We could have used that money elsewhere for investment or other personal fulfillment.

The “it’s only going to cost you a couple dollars argument” is trash.
Exactly. That line: "It is only $1 a day extra" is used EVERY TIME they want to raise taxes. City sales taxes. School bond issues ("Invest in our childrens' education for only an extra $2/day"), county taxes, state taxes, federal taxes all use the same B.S. line. Those extra dollars are piled on top of already massive tax rates.

In my state, they keep saying: "We need this bond issue to go through for infrastructure spending", but when it passes it goes into increasing government worker salaries and then they come around again in two years with the same line about infrastructure spending.

DEMentia
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Old 06-20-2020, 10:00 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
31,913 posts, read 26,196,059 times
Reputation: 41643
It absolutely could.

I'm an older Millennial. I graduated with about $10k in student loan debt, which was paid off relatively quickly. I know people with tens of thousands of debt still in their 30s.

Without that debt burden, those people would have freedom to do a lot of things.
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Old 06-20-2020, 10:32 PM
 
6,085 posts, read 2,994,278 times
Reputation: 4069
Quote:
Originally Posted by Therblig View Post
Does "gasoline on a fire" bring up any useful images? The very core of the problem is the relentless sell of four-year degrees as essential job tickets, which they were never, ever meant to be. Your proposal is to make it even more... so.
???
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Old 06-20-2020, 10:45 PM
 
3,232 posts, read 1,565,926 times
Reputation: 5469
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teak View Post
Those extra dollars are piled on top of already massive tax rates.
Just wanted to say thanks. A generic and completely nonsensical anti-tax rant adds so much to the discussion.
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Old 06-20-2020, 10:46 PM
 
Location: Northern Virginia
4,656 posts, read 2,218,292 times
Reputation: 12538
Quote:
Originally Posted by Therblig View Post
Yep, another one of those Cadillac welfare queens. Oughta be hunted down like dogs.

Student loans are a problem because of the trifecta:
  1. We've pushed 18yos into college at any cost, literally.
  2. Many have no family means or qualify for significant grants and scholarships. (Those that do go to truly elite schools for far less net cost.)
  3. They have no better idea of their career success than anyone else, especially if they make the mistake of grinding through a job-ticket process because everything else is such a big waste of time and money etc.
So, young and misinformed and misguided, they roll the dice and guess what: They don't end up making $100k a year for Google at 26.

So maybe equating student loans and general financial sense is not worthwhile. After all, nearly everyone screws up with their first credit cards, too. The smart ones don't do it again. And facing a 3-4 years of annual income debt before you buy your first new car tends to smarten up a lot of people.

I have seen both fiscally responsible people who quickly paid off their debt and people who decided to kick the can down the road and instead wasted that money - sometimes literally with the hope of future student debt forgiveness ("If Clinton wins, we'll get it!") built into their decision-making process.



Moral hazard, moral hazard.

For what it's worth, I know plenty of folks without college degrees who managed to work their way fairly quickly to income levels that would allow you to pay off your loans. It's not rocket science, it doesn't require earning 100k at age 26.
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Old 06-20-2020, 10:55 PM
 
8,729 posts, read 6,598,907 times
Reputation: 12573
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheArchitect View Post
Could a cancelation or significant reduction in student debt over the next couple of years for working adults, effectively provide a boost to the housing market and also spur entrepreneurship on the heels of the economic effects of the Covid shutdown?

Curious to hear some of the pros/cons of this idea.




WSJ article below:

"Student loans prevented 400,000 young Americans from buying homes, Fed says in paper covering 2005 to 2014"


https://www.wsj.com/articles/fed-say...et-11547657473


https://www.businessinsider.com/stud...nership-2019-7


https://hbr.org/2019/04/student-debt...-entrepreneurs
A bit of an issue with the data though, sometime during that period, they changed the lending standards where they use the income based repayment payment as the debt utilization, not the full payment amount as was before.
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Old 06-20-2020, 11:33 PM
 
Location: Formerly Pleasanton Ca, now in Marietta Ga
9,243 posts, read 6,812,619 times
Reputation: 14106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
It absolutely could.

I'm an older Millennial. I graduated with about $10k in student loan debt, which was paid off relatively quickly. I know people with tens of thousands of debt still in their 30s.

Without that debt burden, those people would have freedom to do a lot of things.
Yes like not invest or buy a house and maybe travel, eat out more, buy an expensive car.
You paid your debt off by yourself and bought a place. They didn’t. What makes you think they would be sensible?
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Old 06-21-2020, 07:17 AM
 
8,804 posts, read 4,846,608 times
Reputation: 17220
Quote:
Originally Posted by Veritas Vincit View Post
I have seen both fiscally responsible people who quickly paid off their debt and people who decided to kick the can down the road and instead wasted that money - sometimes literally with the hope of future student debt forgiveness ("If Clinton wins, we'll get it!") built into their decision-making process.



Moral hazard, moral hazard.

For what it's worth, I know plenty of folks without college degrees who managed to work their way fairly quickly to income levels that would allow you to pay off your loans. It's not rocket science, it doesn't require earning 100k at age 26.
Some people who got debt a long time ago have private loans that can’t be forgiven. Mine have always been at under 4%. Instead of paying more toward that debt, I put more toward my mortgage (at a higher interest rate), car payment (so as not to have one), or retirement. I just don’t see a point in rushing to pay off anything that is a less than 4% interest rate. Currently I put 10% into retirement in addition to the 4.4% for my pension and the 5% match from my employer. That is going to help me more in the long run than paying off my student loans at a sub 3% interest rate.
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