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Old 06-22-2020, 02:29 AM
 
8,380 posts, read 4,668,106 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Purlin View Post
That's right.

And what's next? Are the US taxpayers on the hook for all the money bet on Pioneer of the Nile in the 2009 Kentucky Derby?
Perhaps .... how could they have known he wasn't going to win?

Do you think mortgage debt could be considered? I might buy another house if this one was paid for .... wouldn't that boost the economy?
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Old 06-22-2020, 09:43 AM
 
5,274 posts, read 5,706,662 times
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How does this idea help current students? Is it kind of a kick the can down the road solution? Forgive everyone's current SL debt and then 10 years from now do it over again and so on and so on? I can tell you if I had known this would be a thing I would have lived little higher on the hog in grad school Instead of living with roommates in sketchy apartment complexes I could have lived by myself in the nicest areas and then gotten the taxpayers to pay for it a few years later
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Old 06-22-2020, 09:59 AM
 
5,218 posts, read 13,307,906 times
Reputation: 4381
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheArchitect View Post
Could a cancelation or significant reduction in student debt over the next couple of years for working adults, effectively provide a boost to the housing market and also spur entrepreneurship on the heels of the economic effects of the Covid shutdown?

Curious to hear some of the pros/cons of this idea.




WSJ article below:

"Student loans prevented 400,000 young Americans from buying homes, Fed says in paper covering 2005 to 2014"


https://www.wsj.com/articles/fed-say...et-11547657473


https://www.businessinsider.com/stud...nership-2019-7


https://hbr.org/2019/04/student-debt...-entrepreneurs
Of course it would/could, but that does not mean it is a good idea. I am totally opposed to the cancellation of any debt. Add in that there is already a major supply constraint on entry level housing, so why would we need to 'boost the housing market'?
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Old 06-22-2020, 10:01 AM
 
3,232 posts, read 1,552,185 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mizzourah2006 View Post
How does this idea help current students?
It doesn't, which is both a good point and something of a diversion... sort of "why rebuild a house when others are just going to burn down." Maybe they are separate problems needing separate solutions.
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Old 06-22-2020, 10:03 AM
 
5,218 posts, read 13,307,906 times
Reputation: 4381
Quote:
Originally Posted by Therblig View Post
I don't know. Maybe something is owed all those who took on huge debt to complete a degree, whether they've been lucky/successful enough to pay it off or not.

But in general (and not necessarily addressing you), the "I succeeded and they didn't and I am thus more worthy" argument doesn't fly in the Empire of Therblig. Any argument that boils down to "I am worthy and they are not" — which is epidemic in the discussions here — marks the poster as an entitled fool in my book. Individuals succeed to varying degrees as much to nonrandom distribution of assets (including privilege) and plain luck as to all those cherished 'Murrican verities.

So an argument that you paid off your debts is neither here nor there on the larger problem, and implying that if you could do it, they can, too... lead balloon, there.

(For reference, we put six kids through college, including a couple of expensive ones. Some grants and scholarships, no loans. This last one may have to self-fund part of a very expensive and demanding senior year, but will likely go from that into a very small pool of very elite positions on sheer ability alone. My ex and I both paid for our own educations, more or less.)
something is 'owed'....GET REAL
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Old 06-22-2020, 10:07 AM
 
5,649 posts, read 3,648,328 times
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The empire of theblig.

I missed that gem.

These empires we build are little more than sandcastles. Only the tides are forever.

All that remains is quietude.
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Old 06-22-2020, 10:41 AM
 
3,232 posts, read 1,552,185 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatsright19 View Post
The empire of theblig.

I missed that gem.
And misspelled it to boot, and, completely lacking a sense of humor, missed the context. Better luck next time.
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Old 06-22-2020, 11:10 AM
 
Location: Formerly Pleasanton Ca, now in Marietta Ga
9,195 posts, read 6,760,113 times
Reputation: 14021
I think it takes a certain type of person with drive and perseverance to start a business. A lot of people don’t go to college and get in debt aren’t those types. They are more the follow the path types, go to school, get a job, work , etc.
the people who start a business are usually so driven being in debt will slow them down , but not stop them. So imho those that have their debt forgiven will not successfully start businesses so overall I think it’s a waste of money to bail them out.
As far as them buying houses, many have said they don’t want to own homes, so what good is paying off their debt? If they do buy, that increases demand and thus raises home prices so they still may not buy.
I do not have a degree so I figure all these grads are smarter than me. Yet I know if I am looking at debt, i look to see what the return is. Why didn’t the grads consider the debt they would incur and the ramifications of it in exchange for the degree?
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Old 06-22-2020, 11:22 AM
 
3,232 posts, read 1,552,185 times
Reputation: 5469
Quote:
Originally Posted by aslowdodge View Post
I think it takes a certain type of person with drive and perseverance to start a business. A lot of people don’t go to college and get in debt aren’t those types. They are more the follow the path types, go to school, get a job, work , etc.

the people who start a business are usually so driven being in debt will slow them down , but not stop them. So imho those that have their debt forgiven will not successfully start businesses so overall I think it’s a waste of money to bail them out.
This is such a narrow viewpoint I can't quite find a way to respond in any sensible way.

Suffice it to say that I don't think the world is divided into those who get degrees and go to work for someone else, and those "start businesses" and grow them through sheer pluck and grit.

That's a vague casting of the American success mythos, which is as much wishful thinking and contrary examples as any slight truth. But we certainly like to believe that can-to-can't sweat of your brow trumps all other paths, especially that smarty-pants college learnin'.

If what you actually meant was there are several different paths to success, then never mind.
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Old 06-22-2020, 11:46 AM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
6,419 posts, read 3,322,330 times
Reputation: 10429
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheArchitect View Post

Wow, I can't believe how far HBR has allowed itself to drop. Read's like an Onion article. It's not even a sensible opinion stor



The number of young people that start companies has been steadily declining since the mid-90s. In 1996, young people launched 35% of startups. By 2014, this number was down to 18 percent.


----
When the majority of college graduates (nearly 70%) leave school with an average of $29,800 in debt, the thought of doing anything but getting a well-paying job to try to reduce this burden might seem irresponsible, at best. Even if one does land a job that affords them the luxury of steady loan repayment, they are likely to continue to pay off their loans for many years. Research from Citizens Financial Group suggests that 60% of student debt borrowers expect to be paying off their loans into their 40s.



So these would be geniuses are going to start a business, but can't figure out a simple amortization table and how to finance $30K? They caught a lucky break on that one.



---
While normalizing the cost of tuition might be the long term answer, in the short term, the power to reignite innovation and entrepreneurial venture creation lies within the parties that help pay the bills of most individuals and entities: employers and capital providers.
Wow, just wow. I wouldn't let these authors co-found a lemonade stand. First off, it's not your employer's responsibility to ignite you to run away from your job and start a business....and what the hell are the banks going to do? "Hey Pete, I got a dumb kid that wants a loan to reignite entrepreneurship, but first we have to wash away his last loan that he can't problem-solve a way of paying us back."


Employers can help put us back on track

To start, the relationship between employers and employees needs to adapt to the changing needs of the modern workforce. Job security is no longer enough to satisfy the new workforce, jaded by false promises of guaranteed opportunities after college. Employers competing for the best talent need to recognize this trend, and double down on treating employees as an investment and not an expense.


So in other words, you never worked in high school. If you did, you'd already know that you are an expense and a replaceable part, and you're going to put up with it, because you have to. And since you never worked in high school, there's no way you'd know how to start a real business.


In that final point, the article does inadvertently hit on the real reason for the woes.
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