U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Happy Independence Day!
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-25-2020, 05:44 PM
 
Location: Portal to the Pacific
6,399 posts, read 5,897,996 times
Reputation: 8295

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by griffon652 View Post
So let me ask it in another way: If the common everyday American (who don't know as much as the CD crowd regarding the accurate stats and definition regarding income, class etc) were given the example of the two people in my example, who do you think they would consider to be more successful?

Another way to put it is do you think the average American has more admiration for? Someone who makes more money but has less education/job prestige or someone who makes less money (but not by a wide margin as in my example) but has more education/job prestige? Please keep in mind that this is why I referred to my question in terms of STATUS and not class. As many have pointed out, social "class" has some general qualifiers that are agreed upon by economists. Status is a lot more subjective and will have different qualifiers if the average American is the judge.

Btw thanks for all the great response. I was really looking for some well thought out opinions on the subject and I did. I enjoyed read all of your thoughts and comments on the subject.
Why does there have to be one that is better? Why does it seem that Americans, specifically, are obsessed with duality? Can't they both win? Can't they be more ___ in some eyes and not in others? Does that not work for you?

I think they are both successful and would have admiration for both. One obviously had self-discipline, good financial habits and has achieved financial stability and comfort. Also, being a nurse is an admirable and respectful choice of career. The other individual has achieved important and impactful position in their occupation and earns respect for having a sharp and capable mind as demonstrated by the academic achievements. Perhaps the net worth is less because they had to study and missed many years of income. Or maybe he has had to pay off college and graduate loan debt... we can make all sorts of assumptions.


To your point... most people don't walk around announcing their net worth to strangers or even people they know so what is going to get the attention first is what they can see and then basic, commonly shared information such as occupation and academic achievement.

So maybe at first glance people will have more admiration based on what can be judge first.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-25-2020, 07:59 PM
 
12 posts, read 11,691 times
Reputation: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by griffon652 View Post
My question is related to social STATUS in the USA. I'm sure many of you are aware of all the common categories (income, education, profession etc.) that experts evaluate to create a general census regarding how to determine social CLASS in the USA:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social..._United_States

First, I'm wonder if anyone knows anything regarding how much weight each category play's in determining social class. What I mean is that I'm aware that there is no concrete matrix that every expert goes by. However, they all generally agree on what factor's determine social class. So is there a general consensus among experts regarding which categories have more "weight" in determining who is of a higher class in US society?

For example, are there professions that hold such weight that regardless of income that individual will always be held as an "upper class/upper middle class?" Or the opposite. Are there professions that have such low status that regardless of income a person will always be considered at best "middle class" when holding such jobs?

Second, based on the above information, what is your personal opinion (or opinion based on what you learned from what the experts say) on who would hold more esteem/respect/admiration (as in social STATUS) between the following two individuals among the majority of common Americans (as in not the experts) if evaluating these two solely on the information below?
---------------------------

Individual #1: A 39 year old ADN Nurse (2 year Associate's degree) who works at a hospital making $45K/year. However, she has made outside investments that nets her an additional yearly passive income of $155K/yr. Making her total yearly income $200K. Her net worth is $1.2 Million.

Or

Individual #2: The 49 year old director of operations at the same hospital making $140K/year. However, this individual holds a Phd in business management and a Masters in Economics. His networth is $900K.
Nowadays social status is determined by many factors other than just occupation. IMO, that is exactly the reason why we see some many more people buy luxury products to show off their wealth. They are not necessarily in prominent, highly regarded positions. Society is stepping away from thinking only doctors, lawyers, businessmen and engineers are highly educated and very successful people. A lot of new occupations are emerging.

Many people are very shallow and they don't care what you do but they do look at what you look like, what you wear, what car you drive and where you live. If you think about it, doctors might buy a nice car and house but they typically don't strive for looks that "influencers" have so for many people, describing someone as a great earner is not much of a reason for "admiration". Money really doesn't impress me either. I feel like I can respect someone for their expertise or hard work but looks are usually given and someone buying expensive stuff doesn't mean much to me about that person. Status is hard to determine on a stranger. There are people who go into debt just to show off.

I personally don't see a significant difference between your 2 examples in regards to their perceived status. Also, medical professionals are considered "upper class" by many not because of their salary but due to the recognition they get for their job in general. People who are successful in real estate are also considered to have quite high status. I would refrain from admiring someone. Lives have many aspects. Just because someone is successful financially, it doesn't mean they are perfect at everything. If I don't know anything about people, I try not to judge. It can go both ways...you might get positively or negatively surprised when you get to know them.

Overall, if you look at someone's net worth, you could say that's a way to measure success especially if age is also taken into consideration so if I had to pick, I'd say many people would be more impressed by your 1st individual.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-25-2020, 10:06 PM
 
Location: Henderson, NV
6,674 posts, read 6,749,492 times
Reputation: 8817
Quote:
Originally Posted by westender View Post
The top 1% are not all the "out-of-sight" wealthy that Fussell mentions in Class. But all of the out-of-sight wealthy are in the top 1%. There are some quirky, old money types who fly in coach and shop at Wal Mart. Many among the old money set are quite frugal. But with ten million dollars, these people are at least considering private jet travel.

According to the Federal Reserve survey from 2016:

Six million in assets (these stats exclude primary residence) is the threshold at 2% of top wealth in the US; and
Ten million in assets is the threshold at 1% of top wealth; and
Forty million in assets is the threshold at 0.1% of top wealth.

"Net worth of over $10,374,030.10 would put a household in the top 1%. The top 1% is roughly the wealthiest 1,259,817 households in America"

Source: https://dqydj.com/net-worth-percenti...united-states/
Dude, you are out of your mind, are you kidding me?! lol, yeah sorry but at $10 million in total assets, you are not considering private jet travel. Do you have any clue how expensive that is? My dad spends $10,000 each way to fly his jet to Cabo and back and it cost $4 million, by the way. So you think someone who is worth $10 million is going to spend 40% of their NET worth on a jet, and then $20K to travel somewhere? You have to be kidding. I don't think you have any concept of money whatsoever lol. I have $10M+ and I don't even fly first class! Let alone waste insane amounts of money on private jets. Nobody does that except the $200M+ crowd. Even my dad's wealthy friends with $50-100M just get a ride with him or another wealthy friend.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2020, 09:24 AM
 
Location: Oregon coast
19 posts, read 6,001 times
Reputation: 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonathanLB View Post
As for the comment before, also made me laugh out loud. Dude, do you actually think the top 1% is some big deal? Some unseen group of elites? It's not a big deal, it's 1%, we are not unseen. I'm easily top 1%, and I shop at Target, I go to the same stores you go to, I look for the deals, I eat out at family restaurants like Applebee's and Buffalo Wild Wings (though I think it's a bit expensive for what it is!), my best friend is a police officer, my life is just a normal life associating with mostly middle class and upper middle class people, though I have friends who are much less well off than that. The only wealthy people I know are through my dad, I don't personally have any wealthy friends, though my doctor friend could be the closest. The top 1% doesn't have ANYWHERE near enough money to have a private jet (though my dad does, and he's top 0.1%), heck I can't afford to take first class! Have you seen the prices of a first class trip internationally? We're talking about $8,000 to London! Yeah, I don't think so. I could travel first class around the U.S., I guess, but why would I spend 4x as much money or 5x as much money for that? Money has value to me, I don't waste it and throw it away on stupid things. You'll find me right next to you traveling coach like everyone else, and taking few vacations because it costs a lot of money to travel, and you'll look over on the road and see my 8 year old car that I intend to drive another 7 years minimum because cars are a terrible investment and a depreciating asset.

I think some people have this odd vision of someone in the top 1% living high on the hog, but that's just not reality for most people. I can afford to have a way nicer house than most people, large unexpected expenses don't phase me, but that's about the extent of it, I try to keep my actual spending firmly in the middle class at around $5,500/month for both my wife and I combined, and that includes paying our own health insurance since we're both self-employed. Once the mortgage is gone in a few years, that'll drop to $4,500, which is hardly a crazy spend for a married couple. More than 10% of that is the property tax bill.

Do you have $10M in assets? Otherwise you are not in 1% (don't include assets which you might inherit).
It feels that you are middle/upper-middle class and just don't have enough money for 1st class flying lifestyle. There is no shame, I can't afford it either.


Top 1% definitely live the same lifestyle, they also go to the stores, buy stuff, etc. The difference is how they spend their free time and with whom. They have different preferences in terms of music, entertainment, and they hang out with each other (they don't let outsiders in).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2020, 09:55 AM
 
Location: Niceville, FL
8,603 posts, read 17,179,919 times
Reputation: 9668
Quote:
Originally Posted by flying_pan View Post
It feels that you are middle/upper-middle class and just don't have enough money for 1st class flying lifestyle. There is no shame, I can't afford it either.
Domestic first is often not really that much more than a coach ticket and a lot of the seats in that cabin end up being status upgrades. Plenty of middle class folks in the typical domestic first class cabin.

A certain amount of social status goes back to exclusivity and understanding a system for which there hasn't really been an instructional guide since 'The Preppy Handbook'. Think clothing that is clearly of good fabric quality and well-fitted to the person wearing it but has zero logos on it. Save for the obligatory LV bag among parts of the ladies who lunch set, a lot of the old school super rich think prominent logos are tacky and a sign that someone doesn't 'know the rules of the game' even while paying bespoke prices for everything in their closets.


Or how one Supports The Arts and has the vocabulary to discuss the visual or parts of the performing arts world even if they're actually bored out of their mind when they go to the opera benefit.

Old money/ old high social status often has a thing about making life look effortless and pretending that status doesn't really matter while at the same time not wanting anyone in their club who seems to be trying too hard to join it.

Last edited by beachmouse; 06-26-2020 at 10:26 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2020, 10:36 AM
 
Location: Formerly Pleasanton Ca, now in Marietta Ga
7,149 posts, read 4,981,803 times
Reputation: 9820
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonathanLB View Post
Wow... first off, no it is not "demonstrably untrue" that anyone can succeed. If you mean, "It's not true that a total moron with no IQ and no education can succeed," sure, I'll give you that. You can't be a mental midget and achieve success, anywhere in the world, never have been, never will, because your lot in life is to be at the bottom since you're literally genetically inept. In fact, that's a GOOD thing, you certainly shouldn't be able to achieve any level of success if you're just stupid. That being said, it's entirely possible for anyone of any social status growing up to achieve great fortune and success in the U.S., always has been. My dad came from a family with 8 kids, he inherited nothing whatsoever, he worked from the time he was 7 years old picking berries in the field, washed neighborhood cars, did every menial job you can imagine from night shift restocking a freezer section at a grocery store to automotive assistant to retail and he managed to build a business empire spanning the West Coast. I love it when someone says you can't pull yourself up by the bootstraps -- YOU can't, sure, I'll never question your ineptitude, but other people can, absolutely, and have done so.

As for the comment before, also made me laugh out loud. Dude, do you actually think the top 1% is some big deal? Some unseen group of elites? It's not a big deal, it's 1%, we are not unseen. I'm easily top 1%, and I shop at Target, I go to the same stores you go to, I look for the deals, I eat out at family restaurants like Applebee's and Buffalo Wild Wings (though I think it's a bit expensive for what it is!), my best friend is a police officer, my life is just a normal life associating with mostly middle class and upper middle class people, though I have friends who are much less well off than that. The only wealthy people I know are through my dad, I don't personally have any wealthy friends, though my doctor friend could be the closest. The top 1% doesn't have ANYWHERE near enough money to have a private jet (though my dad does, and he's top 0.1%), heck I can't afford to take first class! Have you seen the prices of a first class trip internationally? We're talking about $8,000 to London! Yeah, I don't think so. I could travel first class around the U.S., I guess, but why would I spend 4x as much money or 5x as much money for that? Money has value to me, I don't waste it and throw it away on stupid things. You'll find me right next to you traveling coach like everyone else, and taking few vacations because it costs a lot of money to travel, and you'll look over on the road and see my 8 year old car that I intend to drive another 7 years minimum because cars are a terrible investment and a depreciating asset.

I think some people have this odd vision of someone in the top 1% living high on the hog, but that's just not reality for most people. I can afford to have a way nicer house than most people, large unexpected expenses don't phase me, but that's about the extent of it, I try to keep my actual spending firmly in the middle class at around $5,500/month for both my wife and I combined, and that includes paying our own health insurance since we're both self-employed. Once the mortgage is gone in a few years, that'll drop to $4,500, which is hardly a crazy spend for a married couple. More than 10% of that is the property tax bill.
Just so I understand, you’re top 1%?
Your net worth is over 10 million and your net income is over 700k per year?
I’d say you’re one of the wealthiest people on this forum and doing extremely well for your age.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2020, 10:58 AM
 
3,599 posts, read 2,274,591 times
Reputation: 8146
Born on third base going through life thinking you hit a triple.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2020, 02:50 PM
 
8,415 posts, read 2,413,884 times
Reputation: 7294
Quote:
Originally Posted by flying_pan View Post
Do you have $10M in assets? Otherwise you are not in 1% (don't include assets which you might inherit).
It feels that you are middle/upper-middle class and just don't have enough money for 1st class flying lifestyle. There is no shame, I can't afford it either.


Top 1% definitely live the same lifestyle, they also go to the stores, buy stuff, etc. The difference is how they spend their free time and with whom. They have different preferences in terms of music, entertainment, and they hang out with each other (they don't let outsiders in).
lol.

I love it when people think they know what rich people like, do, etc.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2020, 09:08 PM
 
16,978 posts, read 9,407,373 times
Reputation: 30612
Quote:
Originally Posted by treasurekidd View Post
Well Turf, all I can say is that if those are the things that you perceive as defining peoples class status, then I feel sorry for you. The only thing I can attribute to any of the institutions that you called out is pretentious self importance, and don't feel any need or desire to be associated with any of them. I mean really, what is this, high school - the popular kids vs the nerds? Come on man.

And my sons grades would probably get him at least a consideration at Yale, but I wouldn't send him there if it was free. I'd like him to turn out to be a good man, and a horribly overrated school like that wouldn't be my choice him because who he is is much more important to me than what the damn piece of paper they call a degree says.
Just goes to show how difficult it is to overcome lousy parents. Yale is somewhere in the top-5. You would deny your child that opportunity?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-28-2020, 07:19 PM
 
Location: Florida and New England
1,413 posts, read 1,568,922 times
Reputation: 1992
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonathanLB View Post
Dude, you are out of your mind, are you kidding me?! lol, yeah sorry but at $10 million in total assets, you are not considering private jet travel. Do you have any clue how expensive that is? My dad spends $10,000 each way to fly his jet to Cabo and back and it cost $4 million, by the way. So you think someone who is worth $10 million is going to spend 40% of their NET worth on a jet, and then $20K to travel somewhere? You have to be kidding. I don't think you have any concept of money whatsoever lol. I have $10M+ and I don't even fly first class! Let alone waste insane amounts of money on private jets. Nobody does that except the $200M+ crowd. Even my dad's wealthy friends with $50-100M just get a ride with him or another wealthy friend.
Two words: fractional ownership
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2020, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top