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Old 06-25-2020, 09:17 AM
 
Location: Heart of flyover America
656 posts, read 261,592 times
Reputation: 1243

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyDog77 View Post
Couple things....

How many threads on the same topic are you going to start?

To ask a question like this, it would be good if you started by understanding finance and economics.
I don't know everything, but I have a far better fundamental understanding of the topic than the Keynesians and "Modern Monetary Theorists."
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Old 06-25-2020, 09:43 AM
 
10,575 posts, read 4,595,798 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taggerung View Post
I don't know everything, but I have a far better fundamental understanding of the topic than the Keynesians and "Modern Monetary Theorists."
Yours is basically a gold standard money paradigm. And as such you will be perpetually vexed by inflation or potential inflation as the world expands. Since 1971 some of those basic understandings no longer hold true. Modern sovereign money is of course different than gold. Not that some fundamentals don't still apply, but modern fiat money is now a much different paradigm.

Some different biggies are that it can be created from nothing, and then destroyed back to nothing.
As a sovereign Gov't is the issuer, its use and needs for fiat are much different than a business or family.
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Old 06-25-2020, 11:52 AM
 
2,619 posts, read 1,000,817 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
Our Fed does not create debt, but it can create money to swap for debt. And when the Fed owns Federal debt, it is almost as if that debt was never issued. Because aside from their 6% dividend, the Fed does not profit from its money creating actions. As interest is swept back to the Treasury, the amount of interest is way less important.
OK, then let's have the Fed buy and hold all debt, public and private — a miracle! Bon-bons and ice cream forever. Functioning capital markets are sooo overrated.
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Old 06-25-2020, 12:31 PM
 
10,575 posts, read 4,595,798 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimAZ View Post
OK, then let's have the Fed buy and hold all debt, public and private — a miracle! Bon-bons and ice cream forever. Functioning capital markets are sooo overrated.
It could. The miracle is modern money and related central policy.

“Fed Chairman Ruml got it right in 1946” | New Economic Perspectives

The take away is seen with review of the economics of WW2. Money itself was not our limitation. Our limits were overall productivity and inflation.
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Old 06-25-2020, 12:45 PM
 
Location: Washington Park, Denver
8,104 posts, read 7,526,585 times
Reputation: 9131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
Yours is basically a gold standard money paradigm. And as such you will be perpetually vexed by inflation or potential inflation as the world expands. Since 1971 some of those basic understandings no longer hold true. Modern sovereign money is of course different than gold. Not that some fundamentals don't still apply, but modern fiat money is now a much different paradigm.

Some different biggies are that it can be created from nothing, and then destroyed back to nothing.
As a sovereign Gov't is the issuer, its use and needs for fiat are much different than a business or family.
This nails it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taggerung View Post
I don't know everything, but I have a far better fundamental understanding of the topic than the Keynesians and "Modern Monetary Theorists."
No, you don’t. You have a religion that ignores facts that are right in front of your eyes. Things have been working that your beliefs would say are impossible.
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Old 06-25-2020, 01:40 PM
 
Location: Heart of flyover America
656 posts, read 261,592 times
Reputation: 1243
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyDog77 View Post
This nails it.



No, you don’t. You have a religion that ignores facts that are right in front of your eyes. Things have been working that your beliefs would say are impossible.
Nothing the fed is doing is "working." All they are doing is dragging out and postponing the unavoidable debt and currency collapse (and making it all the more calamitous when it finally does happen in the process).

QE and stimulus have not"worked," they have failed miserably. Which is why we're doing it again, but on a far larger scale.
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Old 06-25-2020, 02:03 PM
 
10,575 posts, read 4,595,798 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taggerung View Post
Nothing the fed is doing is "working." All they are doing is dragging out and postponing the unavoidable debt and currency collapse (and making it all the more calamitous when it finally does happen in the process).

QE and stimulus have not"worked," they have failed miserably. Which is why we're doing it again, but on a far larger scale.
QE worked to lower interest rates, but did not spark desired inflation as there simply weren't enough qualified borrowers.

What the Fed is doing today is much smaller in dollar terms than its efforts after the 2008 crash.

At the federal level debt never has to be paid back. This is unlike gold standard thinking and highlights a major difference sovereign vs personal or business debt.

In fact in as we see in today's times of stress, a whole lot of conventional debt can be held at bay if necessary. IMO we will see a bit more inflation coming out of our viral morass, but nothing like hyper.
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Old 06-25-2020, 02:13 PM
 
Location: Washington Park, Denver
8,104 posts, read 7,526,585 times
Reputation: 9131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taggerung View Post
Nothing the fed is doing is "working." All they are doing is dragging out and postponing the unavoidable debt and currency collapse (and making it all the more calamitous when it finally does happen in the process).

QE and stimulus have not"worked," they have failed miserably. Which is why we're doing it again, but on a far larger scale.
Let me get this straight....nothing they are doing is working because you think the currency is going to collapse, even though we are a dozen years past the last time you probably thought this would happen?
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Old 06-25-2020, 02:15 PM
 
27,967 posts, read 30,483,018 times
Reputation: 28176
I agree with you, Taggerung, but why argue with people? Most people don't want to hear bad news. The people who already see what's coming don't need to be told and the people who don't see it won't listen anyway. Do what you need to do to act on your convictions.
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Old 06-25-2020, 03:29 PM
 
10,575 posts, read 4,595,798 times
Reputation: 2185
Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
I agree with you, Taggerung, but why argue with people? Most people don't want to hear bad news. The people who already see what's coming don't need to be told and the people who don't see it won't listen anyway. Do what you need to do to act on your convictions.
This is a generalization. I felt a lot like Taggerung 15-20 years ago.

And the keys that changed me have to do with my study of debt and money and foreign exchange.

Sovereign debt is very different from personal or business debt.

Fiat money is very different than PM or PM based currency.

The whole world uses and needs the USD and USD denominated debt paper. And there is no other currency around to supplant it.

Gold as a global currency makes much less sense. It has to be physically secured and stored. Transfer is not easy or efficient. There is limited supply, and that supply is too easily controlled.
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