U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Covid-19 Information Page
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-28-2020, 09:43 PM
 
10,600 posts, read 4,608,653 times
Reputation: 2191

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taggerung View Post
One thing that no one seems to understand: you can never get something for nothing.

If we could create all these dollars with no consequence, then why not just print the entire gdp? That way, no one would have to work. Hell, why not not print ten times the gdp, then we'd really be rich!
Inflation of course. But no one is asking for that strawman.

What happens if the pandemic gets so deadly it will cost us $100T over the next 12 months?
Does everyone die?
Do we put all we have into treating and curing the disease?
Will we be limited by money, inflation or resources/related productivity?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-28-2020, 10:38 PM
 
1,715 posts, read 399,565 times
Reputation: 1882
Thanks to all the hot money flows from the U.S. during the QE heydays the average price of a run-of-the-mill apartment in Taipei is now around $1 million USD while the average wage for a professional is around $30k US.

Quote:
Taiwan is faced with an enormous housing bubble, which has only become worse due to loose monetary policies implemented by major economies since the global financial crisis began in 2008. . . . One must first understand the reason causing property prices to climb for the past 11 years, despite an oversupply and low-occupancy rate in Taiwan real estate market. The answer is simple. Since the financial crisis, almost all major economies have coupled low interest rates with loose monetary policy, causing a huge increase in capital flow and money supply and freeing up funds for speculative investment in real estate. In Taiwan the incentive to invest has been even stronger due to a sudden drop in estate and gift taxes after amendments to the relevant laws in 2009.

While investors competed to put this easy money into property, it was easy for those in the housing business and speculators to ramp up prices. This spurious investor demand created a false impression of a hot market, causing homebuyers to jump in for fear of being left out in the cold. Simply put, the increase in property prices in the past four years is purely a result of hot money. . . . The problem is that the hot money will come to an end sooner or later—as soon as loose monetary policy does.

Once hot money flows end, the property market will return to fundamentals and be subject to the law of supply and demand. The 1.43 million unoccupied properties islandwide, a ratio of more than 20 percent of total supply, are already putting prices under downward pressure. The problem is further worsened by an aging population, a falling birth rate, and the long-term trend of disappearing demographic dividends from what was traditionally a growing population.

The presence of a bubble is manifest in a wide range of Taiwan property market indexes: average prices are eight times more than average income; average mortgage payments are more than 30 percent higher than household income; property loans exceed 40 percent of gross domestic product; the property price to monthly rental ratio is more than 300 and rental returns are one of the lowest in the world; and for years property price increases have exceeded GDP growth rate and investment demand is more than 20 percent of the total. It is clear the risk from the bubble is enormous.
-- June 15, 2013

https://taiwantoday.tw/news.php?unit=2&post=3038

Hopefully this time the U.S. will keep its new lava flow of hot money at home, dispelling the myth that trillions of dollars in newly created money has no inflationary consequences.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-28-2020, 10:53 PM
 
10,600 posts, read 4,608,653 times
Reputation: 2191
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathlete View Post
Thanks to all the hot money flows from the U.S. during the QE heydays the average price of a run-of-the-mill apartment in Taipei is now around $1 million USD while the average wage for a professional is around $30k US.

-- June 15, 2013

https://taiwantoday.tw/news.php?unit=2&post=3038

Hopefully this time the U.S. will keep its new lava flow of hot money at home, dispelling the myth that trillions of dollars in newly created money has no inflationary consequences.
QE was an interest rate lowering policy that created an enormous amount of excess member bank reserves that mainly just sat, as there weren't enough reliable borrowers at the time. Low interest rates create a favorable environment for asset inflation like stocks and housing. Low rates, not mega new dollars in circulation.

So Taiwan may have experienced the same. But not with the USD's sitting as reserves. They have and use their own currency.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/EXCSRESNS
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-28-2020, 11:46 PM
 
8,419 posts, read 7,541,298 times
Reputation: 4011
Quote:
Originally Posted by lieqiang View Post
Do you really believe this or did you get caught up in spouting hyperbole?

I've seen stats showing something like 98% of retail stores are small businesses with less than 50 employees. Do you have alternate source that pegs this number at 0%?
Hyperbole takes less words to get out an idea/concept or provoke a thought. I admit I do get caught up in it.

Point being, a lot of these big companies have cornered markets. This makes for harder entry barriers. A lack of local competition is what many consider an unhealthy climate. The enrichment of Wall Street at the expense of the Main St is often cited as the cause of rural blight, small town blight, or middle America blight.

Business should not be considered small, if is just one in group of several dozen, or hundred owned by similarly associated people. The inevitable outcome of multinational corporate domination of retail sector or any sector is oligopoly. Not inclined to think that is what most people want.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taggerung View Post
One thing that no one seems to understand: you can never get something for nothing.

If we could create all these dollars with no consequence, then why not just print the entire gdp? That way, no one would have to work. Hell, why not not print ten times the gdp, then we'd really be rich!
Most will end up still in the hands of the "Facilitators of Flow of Capital". They are so good at facilitating, they open their hands just a little so only bits trickle into everyone else's.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-29-2020, 07:42 AM
 
10,600 posts, read 4,608,653 times
Reputation: 2191
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133 View Post
Hyperbole takes less words to get out an idea/concept or provoke a thought. I admit I do get caught up in it.

Point being, a lot of these big companies have cornered markets. This makes for harder entry barriers. A lack of local competition is what many consider an unhealthy climate. The enrichment of Wall Street at the expense of the Main St is often cited as the cause of rural blight, small town blight, or middle America blight.

Business should not be considered small, if is just one in group of several dozen, or hundred owned by similarly associated people. The inevitable outcome of multinational corporate domination of retail sector or any sector is oligopoly. Not inclined to think that is what most people want.



Most will end up still in the hands of the "Facilitators of Flow of Capital". They are so good at facilitating, they open their hands just a little so only bits trickle into everyone else's.
The rich will get richer, but that doesn't have to be at the expense of those poorer. The rich know how and where new moneys can be created and doled out. The middle class don't understand it or believes in inflation, so they turn this largess down.

The fastest and most broad way to enrich those not rich is through central HC benefits. I expect to die before they get it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-29-2020, 08:32 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
27,691 posts, read 20,676,352 times
Reputation: 33578
Sure, as long as we're the least bad house in the neighborhood.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-29-2020, 11:50 AM
 
Location: Myrtle Creek, Oregon
14,386 posts, read 13,939,244 times
Reputation: 23383
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathlete View Post
Thanks to all the hot money flows from the U.S. during the QE heydays the average price of a run-of-the-mill apartment in Taipei is now around $1 million USD while the average wage for a professional is around $30k US.

-- June 15, 2013

https://taiwantoday.tw/news.php?unit=2&post=3038

Hopefully this time the U.S. will keep its new lava flow of hot money at home, dispelling the myth that trillions of dollars in newly created money has no inflationary consequences.
The US is far from the only country dumping massive amounts of money into the markets. The result has been asset hyperinflation. This has generally been hailed as a "Good Thing," but the effect has been to price ordinary people out of the markets. Industries that rely on assets, like farming, find it impossible to expand without creative bookkeeping.

Farmers don't farm the land any more, they farm their equity. If good farmland sells for $5,000/acre, there is no way it could pay for itself in the life of a mortgage. However, if the farmer already has 1000 acres that cost $1500/acre 20 years ago with only $1000/acre against it, he can buy another 1000 acres, combine the debt, and only have a $3,000/acre mortgage. Half price! That may still be marginal when measured against productivity, but he can borrow against his equity for operating capital. Winning at that crap table depends on weather and markets, which is why so many farmers no longer farm their own land.

Those who own assets benefit wildly from asset hyperinflation. Those trying to build assets are screwed.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-29-2020, 02:49 PM
 
Location: Riverside Ca
20,949 posts, read 23,398,190 times
Reputation: 32334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taggerung View Post
Or is the USD immune to the laws of finance and economics?
Who cares man. You’re not gonna change anything regardless how many chicken little posts you put up. Truthfully the world is gonna go on regardless what governments do. I have gone through a few of these “the world is ending we’re all gonna die broke” scenarios. I’m not dead and I’m not broke.
Is this COVID thing bad....yeah it is. So was the Spanish flu. So was the great depression so was the RE bubble in 2000s. And many other financial calamities.

Literally nothing you say or do here will have any impact in the world. You’re literally pissing in a ocean hoping it overflows.

.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-29-2020, 03:40 PM
 
10,600 posts, read 4,608,653 times
Reputation: 2191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell View Post
The US is far from the only country dumping massive amounts of money into the markets. The result has been asset hyperinflation. This has generally been hailed as a "Good Thing," but the effect has been to price ordinary people out of the markets. Industries that rely on assets, like farming, find it impossible to expand without creative bookkeeping.

Farmers don't farm the land any more, they farm their equity. If good farmland sells for $5,000/acre, there is no way it could pay for itself in the life of a mortgage. However, if the farmer already has 1000 acres that cost $1500/acre 20 years ago with only $1000/acre against it, he can buy another 1000 acres, combine the debt, and only have a $3,000/acre mortgage. Half price! That may still be marginal when measured against productivity, but he can borrow against his equity for operating capital. Winning at that crap table depends on weather and markets, which is why so many farmers no longer farm their own land.

Those who own assets benefit wildly from asset hyperinflation. Those trying to build assets are screwed.
Many of our middle class own stocks and homes.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-29-2020, 04:55 PM
 
2,647 posts, read 1,010,881 times
Reputation: 6659
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrician4you View Post
Who cares man. You’re not gonna change anything regardless how many chicken little posts you put up. Truthfully the world is gonna go on regardless what governments do. I have gone through a few of these “the world is ending we’re all gonna die broke” scenarios. I’m not dead and I’m not broke.
Is this COVID thing bad....yeah it is. So was the Spanish flu. So was the great depression so was the RE bubble in 2000s. And many other financial calamities.

Literally nothing you say or do here will have any impact in the world. You’re literally pissing in a ocean hoping it overflows.

.
Does your nihilism also carry over into the work you do?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2020, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top