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Old 07-29-2020, 01:51 PM
 
Location: Spain
12,722 posts, read 7,496,913 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
Lieqiang, we’re all entitled to our own opinions. In regard to extents of how we consider extents of people’s poverty, I’ve expressed my opinions and you’ve expressed yours.

Words and phrases referring to extents of poverty, (as do many terms employed in languages), are usually more subjective rather than objective matters).
You don't say? I would never have guessed that you stating anyone who disagrees with your position on minimum wage has self-esteem issues was a subjective opinion not based on any actually science, structured program of study, or research-oriented achievement on your part.

Thanks for clearing that up!

 
Old 07-29-2020, 01:53 PM
 
Location: Log "cabin" west of Bangor
7,058 posts, read 9,020,035 times
Reputation: 15622
Quote:
Originally Posted by crusinsusan View Post
It shouldn't even be a question. Every adult human being working full time should be able to live on a wage. So yes. A fair minimum wage should be a human right. Simple. Only the stupid and cruel think otherwise.
Here we go again, the 'living wage'.

Somebody needs to define it before anyone can say what is 'fair'. What 'standard of living' should there be, that everyone should have a 'right' to have?

A shared room (with 4 room-mates) in a rooming house with a shared bath and a hot-plate? Bicycle or bus to work?

A 3 bed two bath apartment with a full cable TV package and a car less than 5 years old?

It's useless for people to go about shouting "we need 'this'" without defining what 'this' is.
 
Old 07-29-2020, 01:53 PM
 
1,934 posts, read 1,281,208 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tickyul View Post
A lot of the people making minimum are very lucky to get that much, just bottom of the barrel employees.
Go into a store like Dollar Tree or most grocery-stores, holy cow, the "quality" of interactions with most of these employees tells the whole story.
Tickyul, excerpted from the thread, “Private industry is not always the superior solution”:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
HooNose, there’s no need for a federal subsidy. If a store managers believe that the minimum wage rate’s too high of a price for cleaning the store’s toilets, they can try to get their lesser supervisors to do it, or delegate the tasks to those who are directly supervised, or do it themselves. See how those policies will affect the stores’ profitability.
The minimum wage rate doesn’t require employers to hire or retain any employees. guarantee anyone a job or an income; it doesn’t determine wage rate differentials; it doesn’t require employers to retain any worker. But employers are prohibited from paying less than the legally mandated minimum wage rate.
Respectfully, Supposn
 
Old 07-29-2020, 02:34 PM
 
6,596 posts, read 5,840,180 times
Reputation: 16788
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
The essence of personal and political opposition to the FMW rate.

The federal minimum wage, (FMW) rate is of net social and economic benefit to our nation. It has never been among the major causes and is certainly a victim of the U.S. dollar’s inflation rate. Inflation occurs when the minimum rate is or is not being increased.

To the extent of its purchasing power, it reduces the incidences and extents of poverty among earners of lower wage rates and their families. No employees are poorer and no enterprises suffer any competitive disadvantage to any USA enterprises due to the FMW rate.

[there’s no doubt that USA’s higher wage rates contribute to our products’ price disadvantages in comparison to products from lower-wage nations; but although the elimination of our FMW rate laws would be greatly detrimental to our nation’s net social and economic well-being, eliminating it would accomplish extremely little to remedy our products’ global price disadvantages.
[Refer to Wikipedia’s “Import Certificates” article.]

I suppose most USA’s population, (significantly more than a 10% plurality) to some extent approve of federal minimum rate’s existence. There are few among wealthy or competent people that are opposed to the federal minimum rate.

A great proportion of minimum rate opponents lack self-esteem. They need whatever affirmation of their own worth that they can derive by being able to look down upon people experiencing lesser financial conditions. They cannot acknowledge even to themselves their fears of improving the financial conditions of others would consequentially reduce their own social status. That’s the essence of personal and political opposition to the FMW rate.

Respectfully, Supposn
Respectfully, I would suggest you study some recent American history, and rethink your stance.

The David-Bacon Act of 1931 forced public construction projects to pay the prevailing local wage. It was expressly designed to price cheap black labor out of the construction market. Subsequent minimum wage laws had a similar effect, and were explicitly intended to slant the job market in favor of white workers, pricing black workers out.

How does that work? you may ask. Think of it this way. Black carpenters brought from the South might want $10/week; New York white carpenters wanted $30. By forcing the rates to be $30, there was no price advantage to hiring out-of-state black workers; the public works bosses hired the local whites.

This effect still exists today. Every time the minimum wage is jacked up for political reasons (rather than by simple market pressure), the ones who suffer the most are:
1. black youth
2. black adults
3. white youth
In roughly that order.

Since black youth are the least skilled job seekers, with the least experience and lowest education achievement, they tend to be naturally willing to take the lowest paying, least skilled jobs. White youth tend to have higher educational achievement and other advantages (more work experience from an earlier age for example, e.g. from working in Dad's office or some such) so they have a natural advantage. All things being equal, the white youth will get hired.

It's a similar situation for black adult job seekers.

Prior to David-Bacon, black laborers actually had higher employment rates than did whites.

It would make more sense to eliminate the minimum wage and let the prevailing wages float according to supply-and-demand. It would eliminate the artificially boosted cost of labor, give the price advantage back to the people at the bottom of the scale, and provide a path to more employment for the most disadvantaged groups.

The whole "livable wage" argument is a red herring. It's a fantasy. Only in a Communist society can you truly designate a minimum wage as "livable" and get away with it. In a capitalist economy (or hybrid capitalist-socialist economy as we have become), raising the min wage causes price inflation and unemployment, leading us in a big circle back to the original problem -- that people can't afford to live.
 
Old 07-29-2020, 02:41 PM
 
1,934 posts, read 1,281,208 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zymer View Post
Here we go again, the 'living wage'.

Somebody needs to define it before anyone can say what is 'fair'. What 'standard of living' should there be, that everyone should have a 'right' to have? ... It's useless for people to go about shouting "we need 'this'" without defining what 'this' is.
Zymer, I don't disagree with you.

IMO, no U.S. Congress will pass any “living wage” act until they have passed and we’ve experienced a federal minimum wage rate that’s been annually monitored and updated when necessary to retain its purchasing power. I have no doubt the purchasing power of that minimum wage rate, (or something else that’s similar to it), that will inevitably be passed and enacted in the USA. I also expect that rate's purchasing power to be substantially greater that that of our current federal minimum. Respectfully, Supposn
 
Old 07-29-2020, 02:56 PM
 
4,295 posts, read 2,736,074 times
Reputation: 6214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemlock140 View Post
Which is where the minimum wage belongs, at the state level, with optional city minimums. There is a huge difference in the cost of living by state, and by cities within a state. There is no way that the minimum wage in Chattanooga, Tennessee or Bowling Green, Kentucky should be the same as in San Francisco or New York City.
In theory, I would agree. But that is not the reality. For example, Florida has an exceptionally low minimum wage and COL is quite high.
 
Old 07-29-2020, 03:29 PM
 
19,514 posts, read 17,746,258 times
Reputation: 17043
Quote:
Originally Posted by shanv3 View Post
You talk like an economist. One question for you. What is the use of the billions of net worth when it cannot translate to any use during this pandemic?? Or it the wealth an individual thing so they chose to spend however they like??
I am an economist.


If you are talking about the net worths of well employed, professional and rich Americans it's in banks and stocks etc. working for the good of everyone.
 
Old 07-29-2020, 03:31 PM
 
19,514 posts, read 17,746,258 times
Reputation: 17043
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133 View Post
75K is just denomination. So as MW is "minimum", as long as higher ranked, or more senior/more tenured employees earnings are trending into the 6 digits, I dont see why not. Is all relative.

I do believe that in some countries they do work with denominations that high for very basic goods, and services. $10 is 1000 pennies, $100 is 10K pennies.
Why not?.........inflation, dislocation, worsening unemployment etc.
 
Old 07-29-2020, 04:14 PM
 
Location: Spain
12,722 posts, read 7,496,913 times
Reputation: 22628
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eeko156 View Post
For example, Florida has an exceptionally low minimum wage and COL is quite high.
West Miami or Ocala?
Palm Beach or Arcadia?
 
Old 07-29-2020, 04:37 PM
 
1,934 posts, read 1,281,208 times
Reputation: 576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemlock140 View Post
Which is where the minimum wage belongs, at the state level, with optional city minimums. There is a huge difference in the cost of living by state, and by cities within a state. There is no way that the minimum wage in Chattanooga, Tennessee or Bowling Green, Kentucky should be the same as in San Francisco or New York City.
Hemlock140, I agree with almost your entire post, but states abilities to deliberately or inadvertently detrimentally affect the economies of other states can and should be to some extent reduced.
That’s why the majority of both of our U.S. congressional chambers and our presidents have passed and enacted increases of federal minimum wage rate. They negotiated and determined the federal rate and enabled states to further increase that rate anywhere within their own state’s own jurisdictions.

I’m not opposed to states increasing their entire state’s or particular localities within their states to additionally increase the minimum rates within their jurisdictions. That completely concurs with your stated opinion, ‘there is no way that the minimum wage in Chattanooga, Tennessee or Bowling Green, Kentucky should be the same as in San Francisco or New York City”.
Respectfully, Supposn
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