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Many "minimum wage employers" your the fact that very few are actually paid the minimum wage. Sure that's true, but giving a nickel more per hour makes that claim true, but what can they really do with that nickel per hour? Buy an extra candy bar every week on payday?
I used to feel the minimum wage should be increased, but at that time I was always making way more than the minimum, so it really didn't matter much to me.
Now I say "no way". Why? Because states and cities will make a minimum that is more apropo to THEIR COL. As noted in the OP, only 21 states remaining at the fmw. And I'd wager those states are more likely to be southern states.
The problem is, whether you "think they deserve it" or not, is that people desperate to pay their bills WILL take the now substandard minimum wage. If you start touring a college education, just exactly how is one in a "starter job" Supposed to afford college? That Is the real question here. Sure, they can take student loans, but we are already into the trillions of dollars in student loans in this country, and making a new, higher salary fit with a loan payment dies NOT "guarantee success".
Sure instead of making$15k a year, they make $40k, but with a $2k loan payment looming, are they really any better off? (Just tossing out some random numbers for point)
This area I live in, when the recession of 1990 hit and all but about 1k manufacturing jobs still existing, if that, is a "Service economy" and the restaurant, retail, service industry workers just making the NY State upstate minimum wage ( now at $11.80/hr. To go to $12.50 Dec 31, 2020).
I was finally able to get hired in retail at a much much higher wage than just minimum, but my OH, a retail grocery store essential employee is being paid just the minimum, even though being trained for other positions at the store, and now carrying a responsible"title". It only took 8 years for my OH to prove reliable (was from day 1), and responsible, and worthy of the "promotion", but has NIT received any additional pay increase.
I've told my OH to apply at my employer to make more, and perhaps my OH will apply, carrying the "title" from the grocery store.
Both of us qualify as "essential employees", so our jobs should be stable during the next shutdown ( which I firmly believe will happen this winter.
The difference In the pay is amazing. Especially since my employer has, and I work in,vthe same food purveyor likey OH.
No one should actually work for the minimum, perhaps only the underage kids looking to establish employment.
Anyone over 18, college or trade school or not, should REFUSE to work for such low wages, to stimulate employees to pay more.
The point is FDR's minimum wages were meant as a little more than survival minimums.
At a time of rising union influence it was meant as a floor wage that didn't require negotiation
and regardless of how backward the particular State/County they happened to be living in.
EVERYONE hired was guaranteed no less that the FMW... and a bit later the 40 hour RT week.
eta: Almost immediately most of the more PROGRESSIVE areas in the country set the local MW higher.
What it might pay for was a concern of some MW advocates at the time (see Perkins)
..but getting through the Capital Hill sausage factory stripped out all those references.
This reality is ignored or just unknown by most of the 'living wage' advocates when they argue here.
Last edited by MrRational; 07-31-2020 at 04:03 AM..
If you understood even the most basic of economic principles, you’d realize how silly you sound.
Federal minimum wage has nothing to do with the equilibrium price/quantity of low/no skill labor.
TaxPhD, I don’t suppose you would deny our federal minimum wage rate modifications are determined by political negotiations and reconciliations between opposing forces or entities?
I don’t suppose you would deny our federal minimum wage rate is a price, and political negotiations and reconciliations between opposing forces or entities determine that price?
I suppose you’re opposed to the minimum wage rate because it’s politically rather than a market determined “equilibrium price”?
I suppose that you’re opposed to any government mandated minimum wage rate. Until our U.S. congresses and presidents choose to eliminate the federal minimum rate, or our supreme federal court rules otherwise, the federal minim wage rate will prevail.
I suppose you hope and possibly believe that will someday come about. I would dread that day because I believe that it will be among one of the indications that our nation’s government has ceased being a democratic-republic type government.
I, no less than you, am opposed to a federal minimum wage rate being a matter of political rather than market determined matter. I was among those advocating senate passage of House Resolution 582. The minimum wage rate bill would annually monitor and adjust the purchasing power of the rate, keeping it abreast to the median wage rate. That would better reduce incidences and extents of poverty among our working-poor.
I don’t suppose Republican senators’ opposition to the bill was due to the rate being determined by a market indicator, but rather because removing the rate from direct political intervention would hinder their ongoing efforts to eliminate the minimum wage rate.
[The U.S. Congressional Budget Office, (similar to the Supreme Court), is meant to be politically non-partisan]. But we all have greater confidence in their considered evaluations when they match ours, and lesser confidence when they’re contrary to our own evaluations].
CBO’s evaluation was by 2026, a H.R. 582 minimum rate would reduce the poverty segment of our population by 12 million persons, and that reduction would hold steady for the next 3 years; (the CBO study did not go beyond the year 2029).
I suppose you share the Republican Senators, rather than the CBO’s evaluations regarding the H.R. 582 bill.
Respectfully, Supposn
At a time of rising union influence it was meant as a floor wage that didn't require negotiation
and regardless of how backward the particular State/County they happened to be living in.
EVERYONE hired was guaranteed no less that the FMW... and a bit later the 40 hour RT week.
eta: Almost immediately most of the more PROGRESSIVE areas in the country set the local MW higher.
What it might pay for was a concern of some MW advocates at the time (see Perkins)
..but getting through the Capital Hill sausage factory stripped out all those references.
This reality is ignored or just unknown by most of the 'living wage' advocates when they argue here.
In an era of low and slow information, ubiquitous child labor, legions of very desperate people, clear and obvious conclusion on the part of several business sectors steel, textile and garment especially FMW wasn't a thing.
In an era of low and slow information, ubiquitous child labor, legions of very desperate people, clear and obvious conclusion on the part of several business sectors steel, textile and garment especially FMW wasn't a thing.
A great proportion of minimum rate opponents lack self-esteem. They need whatever affirmation of their own worth that they can derive by being able to look down upon people experiencing lesser financial conditions. They cannot acknowledge even to themselves their fears of improving the financial conditions of others would consequentially reduce their own social status. That’s the essence of personal and political opposition to the FMW rate.
That will require 3 more paragraphs but likely just as oddly presented.
He seems to think there are people (with any sense) who oppose even having a FedMinWg
He's calling them low character. No one seems to disagree with him on these points.
The other aspects of MW management and philosophy ... seems to a free-for-all.
I don't really know what you mean by people "worth" hiring. Wages, and wealth in general, do not have anything to do with the human value of any particular person. Wages and salary don't even say much about whether someone is competent in their job, since the job market is only partially meritocratic.
At everywhere I've worked, wages are set by a kind of consensus. We ask "what are our regional competitors paying for this job title/class?" and set something in the same range. A little more or a little less.
Therefore, raising the minimum wage puts upward pressure on wages in the lower bands since that consensus will rise. That does cost a few of the lowest end jobs, but it pays off macro-economically through economic activity by those whose got raises, since in the lower bands they put everything they earn back into the economy.
We live in inflationary world. Fixed wage rates make no sense in this world. In my opinion we should have pegged minimum wage to CPI a long time ago, and stop having this argument once and for all. If the $7.25 minimum was pegged to CPI it would currently be $9.23. Had we done it in 1971 when the minimum wage was $1.60, it would currently be $10.34.
It would be nice if it actually worked that way...but it doesn't.
I used to make more than minimum wage. But the boneheads here decided that it would be a 'good thing' if they raised the MW by $1/hr every year for a few years.
Guess what happened. Yep, the min mage went up but my wage didn't, and now *I* am back to making minimum wage. But, because of the increase in the min wage, the prices of everything else went up, and my expenses increased to where I (and everyone else) was in an even worse position than before, with the net after expenses being reduced...which basically results in a reduction in 'lifestyle'- fewer dollars left after expenses to be used for 'discretional spending', you know, like food you don't make yourself, beer, etc. The one 'sit-down' restaurant we had here in town went under. The price of store-bought beer is insane (good thing I know how to make my own). The restaurant in the next town over went under.
Sure, the theory 'sounds' good...but the reality sucks...just like communism.
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