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It shouldn't even be a question. Every adult human being working full time should be able to live on a wage. So yes. A fair minimum wage should be a human right. Simple. Only the stupid and cruel think otherwise.
There's alternatives to raising the minimum wage: food stamps, rent subsidies, free bus/rail passes, day care subsidies.
It shouldn't even be a question. Every adult human being working full time should be able to live on a wage.
So yes. A fair minimum wage should be a human right. Simple. Only the stupid and cruel think otherwise.
So... do you want a living wage or something else?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tijlover
There's alternatives to raising the minimum wage: food stamps, rent subsidies, free bus/rail passes, day care subsidies.
There sure are! How about better education; sex education in particular, effective & free birth control,
rewards for delaying the first birth, rewards for limiting total births...(I can go on a bit more here)...
Reduce the flood of people clamoring and competing for too few jobs and driving down wage rates...
-- so that this smaller group can actually warrant being paid far more than just a MW.
We ignored the clear evidence that warranted instituting this advice in the 70's. Wanna do it again?
iow... lets try to solve the actual problem and not dress up feel good ideas as though they're something else.
They might even be paid enough to be taxed enough to support their siblings and cousins too ignorant to do for themselves.
Last edited by MrRational; 08-01-2020 at 05:03 AM..
... As to the low character group (as you prefer to think of them)... their number is very small. ...
Mr. Rational, [I have little confidence in public opinion polls, regardless of what they claim to report. (But similar to others, I have sometimes mentioned polls reporting in favor of my preferences). Who’s asking, how the questions are “framed”, how the answers are selected or encountered, all affect the consequential results of opinion polls.
I often read the majority of both Republican and Democratic voters are proponents of a minimum wage but within the political forums I participate in, (including this forum), I read greater numbers of posts written by greater numbers of posters, that express their opposition to the minimum wage rate concept.
There's alternatives to raising the minimum wage: food stamps, rent subsidies, free bus/rail passes, day care subsidies.
TijLover, I’m more or less a proponent of everything mentioned in your post. They all would reduce poverty among our working poor and their families. But if we had everyone of those programs in place, the federal minim wage rate to the extent of its purchasing power, would still be net beneficial too our economic and social well-being.
Those opposed to minimum wage rates are generally also opposed to anything increasing their governments’ annual gross spending items and taking on additional administrative tasks. They are generally also opposed to the items mentioned within your post.
Although I generally favor of all the items mentioned in your post, I’m wary of governments’ “choosing winners and losers”, (i.e. “gate keeping”) in order to limit those eligible to receive the government subsidized services at lesser or no cost. In many, possibly the majority such government subsidized programs, “financial gatekeeping” is not more beneficial or less net detrimental to our governments’ annual budgets but rather serve to reduce quality and/or increase net costs.
For example, I believe if public education were now free only to those of lesser incomes, the current quality of public education would be poorer, and the aggregate net cost to our governments, taxpayers, and any fees paid by users of those subsidized educational services, (i.e. public education’s entire direct and indirect costs), would be greater than are our current costs.
It shouldn't even be a question. Every adult human being working full time should be able to live on a wage. So yes. A fair minimum wage should be a human right. Simple. Only the stupid and cruel think otherwise.
Sweet, let’s make the minimal wage $1 million. Everyone will be rich!
Capitalism is far from perfect but this world has limited resources and you need a system that can efficiently organize these resources to the population. A high school dropout who can only flip burgers, should not expect to be paid like a neurosurgeon.
It’s not rocket science, you want social mobility then do something the world wants done.
TaxPhD, I don’t suppose you would deny our federal minimum wage rate modifications are determined by political negotiations and reconciliations between opposing forces or entities?
I don’t suppose you would deny our federal minimum wage rate is a price, and political negotiations and reconciliations between opposing forces or entities determine that price?
I suppose you’re opposed to the minimum wage rate because it’s politically rather than a market determined “equilibrium price”?
I suppose that you’re opposed to any government mandated minimum wage rate. Until our U.S. congresses and presidents choose to eliminate the federal minimum rate, or our supreme federal court rules otherwise, the federal minim wage rate will prevail.
I suppose you hope and possibly believe that will someday come about. I would dread that day because I believe that it will be among one of the indications that our nation’s government has ceased being a democratic-republic type government.
I, no less than you, am opposed to a federal minimum wage rate being a matter of political rather than market determined matter. I was among those advocating senate passage of House Resolution 582. The minimum wage rate bill would annually monitor and adjust the purchasing power of the rate, keeping it abreast to the median wage rate. That would better reduce incidences and extents of poverty among our working-poor.
I don’t suppose Republican senators’ opposition to the bill was due to the rate being determined by a market indicator, but rather because removing the rate from direct political intervention would hinder their ongoing efforts to eliminate the minimum wage rate.
[The U.S. Congressional Budget Office, (similar to the Supreme Court), is meant to be politically non-partisan]. But we all have greater confidence in their considered evaluations when they match ours, and lesser confidence when they’re contrary to our own evaluations].
CBO’s evaluation was by 2026, a H.R. 582 minimum rate would reduce the poverty segment of our population by 12 million persons, and that reduction would hold steady for the next 3 years; (the CBO study did not go beyond the year 2029).
I suppose you share the Republican Senators, rather than the CBO’s evaluations regarding the H.R. 582 bill.
Respectfully, Supposn
So, you look up a dictionary definition of “equilibrium” and then try to mold an economic argument around it, all the while not understanding that your concept of “equilibrium” (in this case, a minimum wage established through political negotiation) has nothing to do with the economic concept of price/quantity equilibrium.
As long as you steadfastly refuse to learn even the most basic of economic concepts/principles, you will be unable to engage in a meaningful discussion about economics.
Sweet, let’s make the minimal wage $1 million. Everyone will be rich! ...
Rocko20:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supposn
EDS, I responded to you when you previously asked the same question. Respectfully, Supposn
/////////////
Excerpted from the thread, "Private industry is not always the superior solution":
EDS, … I do not know why or how an extremely excessive minimum wage rate would be net economically detrimental to the economy, but I do not doubt that it would be detrimental. No nation has or is ever likely to do that. …”.
... As long as you steadfastly refuse to learn even the most basic of economic concepts/principles, you will be unable to engage in a meaningful discussion about economics.
TaxPhd, basic of economic concepts/principles are more than only what you prefer and/or agree to. Respectfully, Supposn
TaxPhd, basic of economic concepts/principles are more than only what you prefer and/or agree to. Respectfully, Supposn
The field of economics is pretty well developed, especially at the principles level. If you believe that you have some special insight that is not impounded into the current standard knowledge base of the field, then by all means - share it with us.
Or, continue to steadfastly refuse to learn. I really couldn’t care less.
Sweet, let’s make the minimal wage $1 million. Everyone will be rich!
Capitalism is far from perfect but this world has limited resources and you need a system that can efficiently organize these resources to the population. A high school dropout who can only flip burgers, should not expect to be paid like a neurosurgeon.
It’s not rocket science, you want social mobility then do something the world wants done.
No one's saying that. But it does us no good if we have to supplement low incomes with things like EITC, food stamps, etc... that is just inefficient.
They need to make enough so that a FT job will be enough to rent a living situation for the area. Last I saw, even the cheapest states like Arkansas require a FT worker to make $14 an hour to rent an apartment. In the expensive states it's more like $25.
There are other ways to make this happen besides just MW, though, which is why I'm increasingly in favor of a UBI. We also need to bring back single room occupancies, make it easier to rent out rooms, etc.., incentivize builders to build something other than luxury units, etc.. In addition to getting MW out of the single digits.
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