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Old 07-28-2020, 08:18 PM
 
1,704 posts, read 863,377 times
Reputation: 494

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The essence of personal and political opposition to the FMW rate.

The federal minimum wage, (FMW) rate is of net social and economic benefit to our nation. It has never been among the major causes and is certainly a victim of the U.S. dollar’s inflation rate. Inflation occurs when the minimum rate is or is not being increased.

To the extent of its purchasing power, it reduces the incidences and extents of poverty among earners of lower wage rates and their families. No employees are poorer and no enterprises suffer any competitive disadvantage to any USA enterprises due to the FMW rate.

[there’s no doubt that USA’s higher wage rates contribute to our products’ price disadvantages in comparison to products from lower-wage nations; but although the elimination of our FMW rate laws would be greatly detrimental to our nation’s net social and economic well-being, eliminating it would accomplish extremely little to remedy our products’ global price disadvantages.
[Refer to Wikipedia’s “Import Certificates” article.]

I suppose most USA’s population, (significantly more than a 10% plurality) to some extent approve of federal minimum rate’s existence. There are few among wealthy or competent people that are opposed to the federal minimum rate.

A great proportion of minimum rate opponents lack self-esteem. They need whatever affirmation of their own worth that they can derive by being able to look down upon people experiencing lesser financial conditions. They cannot acknowledge even to themselves their fears of improving the financial conditions of others would consequentially reduce their own social status. That’s the essence of personal and political opposition to the FMW rate.

Respectfully, Supposn
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Old 07-28-2020, 09:30 PM
 
9,931 posts, read 10,420,304 times
Reputation: 8812
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
The essence of personal and political opposition to the FMW rate.

The federal minimum wage, (FMW) rate is of net social and economic benefit to our nation. It has never been among the major causes and is certainly a victim of the U.S. dollar’s inflation rate. Inflation occurs when the minimum rate is or is not being increased.

To the extent of its purchasing power, it reduces the incidences and extents of poverty among earners of lower wage rates and their families. No employees are poorer and no enterprises suffer any competitive disadvantage to any USA enterprises due to the FMW rate.

[there’s no doubt that USA’s higher wage rates contribute to our products’ price disadvantages in comparison to products from lower-wage nations; but although the elimination of our FMW rate laws would be greatly detrimental to our nation’s net social and economic well-being, eliminating it would accomplish extremely little to remedy our products’ global price disadvantages.
[Refer to Wikipedia’s “Import Certificates” article.]

I suppose most USA’s population, (significantly more than a 10% plurality) to some extent approve of federal minimum rate’s existence. There are few among wealthy or competent people that are opposed to the federal minimum rate.

A great proportion of minimum rate opponents lack self-esteem. They need whatever affirmation of their own worth that they can derive by being able to look down upon people experiencing lesser financial conditions. They cannot acknowledge even to themselves their fears of improving the financial conditions of others would consequentially reduce their own social status. That’s the essence of personal and political opposition to the FMW rate.

Respectfully, Supposn
That's your worst post yet, among those I've read anyway. The nonsense at the end is low and far amiss even for you,
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Old 07-28-2020, 10:04 PM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
6,669 posts, read 4,441,301 times
Reputation: 11458
From 1938-1969, the federal minimum wage got raised about once every 4 years.

From 1970-81, it was raised every year.

Starting in the 1980s, it only got raised about every 8-10 years.

We are now going on 13 years since the last vote in congress to raise the minimum wage, 11 years since the last of the 2007 increase went into effect. That is a function of political gridlock and stupidity. It will soon be 14 years.

More than half the states have already raised theirs. There are only 21 states that still have $7.25. In most of those, I'd wager the effective minimum wage rate is more like $10 and very few workers actually make $7.25

Assuming Democrats take the presidency and Senate, it will will get raised probably to $11-12 or thereabouts.
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Old 07-28-2020, 10:17 PM
 
1,747 posts, read 865,637 times
Reputation: 4334
It shouldn't even be a question. Every adult human being working full time should be able to live on a wage. So yes. A fair minimum wage should be a human right. Simple. Only the stupid and cruel think otherwise.
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Old 07-29-2020, 12:24 AM
 
9,931 posts, read 10,420,304 times
Reputation: 8812
Quote:
Originally Posted by crusinsusan View Post
It shouldn't even be a question. Every adult human being working full time should be able to live on a wage. So yes. A fair minimum wage should be a human right. Simple. Only the stupid and cruel think otherwise.
Your argument of feelings aside.....why don't we set the minimum wage to $75,000? Your side makes it clear there are no downsides. So why not go big?
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Old 07-29-2020, 12:58 AM
 
1,902 posts, read 898,178 times
Reputation: 2034
I think free housing, free food, free-per-view tv, free lottery tickets are a right. Life liberty and the pursuit of happiness is WAY overrated.
Every adult human being should be able to enjoy these things regardless of their experience and work output.
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Old 07-29-2020, 01:40 AM
 
81,516 posts, read 79,416,640 times
Reputation: 57759
Quote:
Originally Posted by crusinsusan View Post
It shouldn't even be a question. Every adult human being working full time should be able to live on a wage. So yes. A fair minimum wage should be a human right. Simple. Only the stupid and cruel think otherwise.
glad you have such a high opinion of your view .

to this i say nonsense
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Old 07-29-2020, 01:41 AM
 
Location: NNV
2,625 posts, read 1,627,077 times
Reputation: 5030
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
The essence of personal and political opposition to the FMW rate.

The federal minimum wage, (FMW) rate is of net social and economic benefit to our nation. It has never been among the major causes and is certainly a victim of the U.S. dollar’s inflation rate. Inflation occurs when the minimum rate is or is not being increased.

To the extent of its purchasing power, it reduces the incidences and extents of poverty among earners of lower wage rates and their families. No employees are poorer and no enterprises suffer any competitive disadvantage to any USA enterprises due to the FMW rate.

[there’s no doubt that USA’s higher wage rates contribute to our products’ price disadvantages in comparison to products from lower-wage nations; but although the elimination of our FMW rate laws would be greatly detrimental to our nation’s net social and economic well-being, eliminating it would accomplish extremely little to remedy our products’ global price disadvantages.
[Refer to Wikipedia’s “Import Certificates” article.]

I suppose most USA’s population, (significantly more than a 10% plurality) to some extent approve of federal minimum rate’s existence. There are few among wealthy or competent people that are opposed to the federal minimum rate.

A great proportion of minimum rate opponents lack self-esteem. They need whatever affirmation of their own worth that they can derive by being able to look down upon people experiencing lesser financial conditions. They cannot acknowledge even to themselves their fears of improving the financial conditions of others would consequentially reduce their own social status. That’s the essence of personal and political opposition to the FMW rate.

Respectfully, Supposn
This is is one disjointed manifesto...

You don't live in the United States, do you...
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Old 07-29-2020, 02:48 AM
 
1,453 posts, read 1,575,224 times
Reputation: 3094
Honestly this argument boils down to what 99% of the population in the world is guilty of doing: They want their cake and want to eat it too. Another words, hypocrisy. If you want to deny people the right to a livable minimum wage then you have to first acknowledge that most form of government bailouts should businesses should be abolished. Meaning, based on the USA's current practices, I agree with the OP regarding raising minimum wage.

The system in the US was built on the free market, self reliance, effort=results etc. However, you cant make that argument unless you are willing to throw out all the blatant examples of socialism the US bestows upon gigantic corporations. If you are against what the OP says then you need to get rid of the following:

-Bailouts of "too big to fail" businesses that give them billions without any mandate on how to spend it and not having any penalties for bailout misuse:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerge..._national_debt
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troubl...Relief_Program

And yes I'm aware "they paid it all back and the government made a profit on the investment." However, they "profit" amounted to a annualized return of just .6% BEFORE accounting for inflation. Also, much of that money was used on things that should have been illegal. Meaning, if there was actual oversight by the government it may have actually turned a profit after accounting for inflation. More impotently, if your going to argue that no citizen is entitled to government help then you can't argue that big business gets to play by different rules. If the whole principle of the US is self reliance and free market, then the rules should be the same for all. The above is just the most well known example. Big business gets free government handouts all the time yet you people want to deny people the right to a fair wage. Ironically, that's not really socialism since these people would have to work full time to get that wage.

And I don't want to hear the nonsense regarding "well the economy would have been worse if not for the bailouts." If you are not willing to concede that every citizen in the US deserves a livable minimum wage if they work full time; then you cannot make the argument that big businesses deserves bailouts under any circumstance. I can get even deeper into this subject but I don't feel like typing an essay at the moment.
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Old 07-29-2020, 03:05 AM
Status: "Make Orwell Fiction Again" (set 8 days ago)
 
Location: The Triad (NC)
30,684 posts, read 67,409,212 times
Reputation: 36351
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
From 1938-1969, the federal minimum wage got raised about once every 4 years.
From 1970-81, it was raised every year.
Starting in the 1980s, it only got raised about every 8-10 years.
This correlates well with the rising number of no/low skill people... and declining number of no/low skill jobs.
Do something about that surplus of available hours and *like magic* the $$value per hour will rise.

But do take note: the number of those jobs is declining faster than ever!
Recognition of this is largely why the UBI and similarly defeatist approaches are being touted...
rather that take on the issues on the other side of the equation.

Quote:
More than half the states have already raised theirs.
Some states have ALWAYS had higher local wage rates. Since the 1930's.
Principally though the recent bumps are done as a social welfare measure... NOT because of work/market reasons.

Quote:
I'd wager the effective minimum wage rate is more like $10 ...
Among those who have shown themselves worth retaining & training... and after X time in place.
But not on their first day.

Last edited by MrRational; 07-29-2020 at 03:28 AM..
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