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Old 08-07-2020, 12:57 PM
 
Location: Flyover part of Virginia
4,232 posts, read 2,454,501 times
Reputation: 5066

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'Real economic growth' being measured by dividing the total debt, public and private, by the GDP.

Since debt is a WEALTH DESTROYER, it only makes sense to do this. Over the decades, we've had to take on more and more debt to get less and less GDP growth:

1980: $1.77 of debt for every $1 of GDP
1990: $2.54 of debt for every $1 of GDP
2000: $2.73 of debt for every $1 of GDP
2010: $3.67 of debt for every $1 of GDP
Now: $4.14 of debt for every $1 of GDP

The reason why it takes more and more debt for GDP growth is because we are reaching the limits of growth. The global ''Holy Growth and Debt Empire is floundering badly because infinite growth and infinite debt expansion are impossible in a finite realm.

We are never returning to the "good ol' days" of 2019. Those levels of consumption and activity are gone for good. From here on out, there will only be a horrific economic decline. It doesn't even matter what happens to Covid at this point.
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Old 08-08-2020, 07:06 AM
 
5,144 posts, read 3,076,394 times
Reputation: 11023
Yes, as a nation we have routinely spent about 6% more than we produce since the late 1980s. There really hasn’t been any organic growth in the economy as evidenced by real wages remaining flat. The deal that Clinton, Rubin and Greenspan made with China in the mid ‘90s essentially exported our inflation and hollowed-out the U.S. industrial base.
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Old 08-08-2020, 07:11 AM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
7,234 posts, read 5,114,062 times
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More importantly, population has been growing faster than GDP for quite a while. GDP per capita is actually falling, ie- we're getting worse off yr by yr.
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Old 08-08-2020, 08:03 AM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
27,542 posts, read 28,630,498 times
Reputation: 25111
How do you explain why the S&P 500 has increased 2,600% in value since 1980?
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Old 08-08-2020, 08:10 AM
 
Location: The Triad
34,088 posts, read 82,920,234 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
How do you explain why the S&P 500 has increased 2,600% in value since 1980?
smoke & mirrors
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Old 08-08-2020, 08:19 AM
 
Location: Flyover part of Virginia
4,232 posts, read 2,454,501 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
How do you explain why the S&P 500 has increased 2,600% in value since 1980?
Cheap credit
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Old 08-08-2020, 10:42 AM
 
5,760 posts, read 11,541,357 times
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But still . . .

Some folks declare the wonders of Reaganomics / Hayek / Neo-Liberal Economics.

US is a bigger sham than Enron.

All BS and carried forward only on Massive Debt.

So. How to reject and repeal Neo-Liberal Economics?

With the inbred "senior" (is that kind enough?) R(s) and D(s) who worship this nonsense -- is there any hope for US before a Dinosaur Die-off?
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Old 08-08-2020, 10:44 AM
 
5,760 posts, read 11,541,357 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
How do you explain why the S&P 500 has increased 2,600% in value since 1980?
Asset Bubble.

That was why the priority to (re)inflate it in the 2008/9 Crash, and now again with the Covid Crash.
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Old 08-08-2020, 11:29 AM
 
18,803 posts, read 8,462,725 times
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Money numbers can be illusions since it can be created out of thin air and destroyed.

IMO the most important point is lifestyle. Maybe difficult to quantify, but how is that compared to your previous date of choice?
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Old 08-08-2020, 01:59 PM
 
30,141 posts, read 11,765,050 times
Reputation: 18646
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
Money numbers can be illusions since it can be created out of thin air and destroyed.

IMO the most important point is lifestyle. Maybe difficult to quantify, but how is that compared to your previous date of choice?

Its how much you really own. If I take out enough debt I can have a millionaires lifestyle which can all come crashing down if I miss a few payments.
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