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Old 08-07-2020, 12:57 PM
 
Location: Heart of flyover America
757 posts, read 307,286 times
Reputation: 1387

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'Real economic growth' being measured by dividing the total debt, public and private, by the GDP.

Since debt is a WEALTH DESTROYER, it only makes sense to do this. Over the decades, we've had to take on more and more debt to get less and less GDP growth:

1980: $1.77 of debt for every $1 of GDP
1990: $2.54 of debt for every $1 of GDP
2000: $2.73 of debt for every $1 of GDP
2010: $3.67 of debt for every $1 of GDP
Now: $4.14 of debt for every $1 of GDP

The reason why it takes more and more debt for GDP growth is because we are reaching the limits of growth. The global ''Holy Growth and Debt Empire is floundering badly because infinite growth and infinite debt expansion are impossible in a finite realm.

We are never returning to the "good ol' days" of 2019. Those levels of consumption and activity are gone for good. From here on out, there will only be a horrific economic decline. It doesn't even matter what happens to Covid at this point.
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Old 08-08-2020, 07:06 AM
 
2,863 posts, read 1,095,949 times
Reputation: 7083
Yes, as a nation we have routinely spent about 6% more than we produce since the late 1980s. There really hasn’t been any organic growth in the economy as evidenced by real wages remaining flat. The deal that Clinton, Rubin and Greenspan made with China in the mid ‘90s essentially exported our inflation and hollowed-out the U.S. industrial base.
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Old 08-08-2020, 07:11 AM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
4,226 posts, read 1,652,216 times
Reputation: 9836
More importantly, population has been growing faster than GDP for quite a while. GDP per capita is actually falling, ie- we're getting worse off yr by yr.
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Old 08-08-2020, 08:03 AM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
19,644 posts, read 21,421,413 times
Reputation: 15878
How do you explain why the S&P 500 has increased 2,600% in value since 1980?
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Old 08-08-2020, 08:10 AM
Status: "Make Orwell Fiction Again" (set 8 days ago)
 
Location: The Triad (NC)
30,690 posts, read 67,409,212 times
Reputation: 36351
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
How do you explain why the S&P 500 has increased 2,600% in value since 1980?
smoke & mirrors
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Old 08-08-2020, 08:19 AM
 
Location: Heart of flyover America
757 posts, read 307,286 times
Reputation: 1387
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
How do you explain why the S&P 500 has increased 2,600% in value since 1980?
Cheap credit
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Old 08-08-2020, 10:42 AM
 
5,321 posts, read 10,193,919 times
Reputation: 4293
But still . . .

Some folks declare the wonders of Reaganomics / Hayek / Neo-Liberal Economics.

US is a bigger sham than Enron.

All BS and carried forward only on Massive Debt.

So. How to reject and repeal Neo-Liberal Economics?

With the inbred "senior" (is that kind enough?) R(s) and D(s) who worship this nonsense -- is there any hope for US before a Dinosaur Die-off?
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Old 08-08-2020, 10:44 AM
 
5,321 posts, read 10,193,919 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
How do you explain why the S&P 500 has increased 2,600% in value since 1980?
Asset Bubble.

That was why the priority to (re)inflate it in the 2008/9 Crash, and now again with the Covid Crash.
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Old 08-08-2020, 11:29 AM
 
10,918 posts, read 4,710,271 times
Reputation: 2312
Money numbers can be illusions since it can be created out of thin air and destroyed.

IMO the most important point is lifestyle. Maybe difficult to quantify, but how is that compared to your previous date of choice?
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Old 08-08-2020, 01:59 PM
 
9,752 posts, read 2,691,632 times
Reputation: 6498
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
Money numbers can be illusions since it can be created out of thin air and destroyed.

IMO the most important point is lifestyle. Maybe difficult to quantify, but how is that compared to your previous date of choice?

Its how much you really own. If I take out enough debt I can have a millionaires lifestyle which can all come crashing down if I miss a few payments.
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