What does it mean to be "successful"?

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by griffon652

She was my inspiration to try to better myself. So essentially without her in my life I have no desire to try. But I'm not giving up. I will of course do everything in my power to get her back in my life before I stop caring about everything else.

You're obviously really hurting right now. And I really hope you'll be able to fix the relationship with your wife and that it will be better between the two of you.

However, whether that happens or not, you don't want to just give up and blow all the money. Being miserable and rich is still A LOT better than being miserable and poor. I know it's hard to see right now, but the misery won't last forever.

[Coldjensens]

Originally Posted by JONOV

IE, for some lawyers it's defined as making partner.

For me as a lawyer, it was a moving target. Making partner was a sort of goal, but not really a focus. In fact I was nto sure I wanted to be a partner for a long time. First I wanted a solo trial. Then I wanted a trial I could win (they give you the crap cases to try at first). Then I wanted a larger/more complex trial. Then I wanted to be lead counsel in a jury trial. Then I wants to be lead counsel in a long complex trial involving over $10 million. Then I wanted ever longer and more complex/higher dollar trials as lead counsel.

I also measured success by income level. I wanted to make over $X then I would surely be successful!. That was also a moving target. As soon as I hit X, it got bigger. There was always someone making more, even within our law firm. Where was the target? How many hundreds of thousands a year did I need to make to be "successful"? I never did find X, so maybe I was never successful.

When I proved myself, partnership just kind of popped in. I really was not pushing for it. Partnership is hard and scary at first. You income is no longer fixed. It varies wildly depending on your performance and the performance of your partners and associates. You have to buy in, and at first, you do not make that much more than you were making. You have to pay your own employer share of social security and pay taxes on phantom income. Your pay comes mostly at the end to the year (distribution time) and you never know how much it will be. You take on a lot of extra duties and responsibilities, and you must have an ever increasing book of business. You become responsible for maintaining the livelihood of associates, paralegals, and staff. You have to make hiring and firing decisions. It is not the best thing in the world. The money comes and grows and grows, then it comes and goes from year to year. There is no "success in making a lot of money. You always think you need t make more to be "successful" and you are always afraid of losing it once you start making it. I remember some rich clients being upset because the other guy's jet was bigger, or the other guys trophy wife was younger than his trophy wife. Even people making millions of dollars a year did not accept themselves as having achieved "success" Always more was required to make that achievement. Sure you may have five homes, a yacht, a jet fifty fancy cars, but do you own a national sports team? if no then you have not reached "success" It just keeps going and the bar is raised ever higher.

I liked the way I was treated by clients, consultants and other lawyers. Sometimes that made me feel 'successful" temporarily. I like the companies breaking out their limo to take me out to fancy lunches or their corporate Gulfstream to take me to a jobsite or meeting location. I tried to be impressed by the $1,000 a night hotel rooms, but I had a hard time distinguishing them from $90 hotel rooms. I thought it was cool, but I did not feel successful. Eventually I started feeling it was all stupid. Wasteful. $150 for a glass of scotch that you drink in less than an hour? WTF? People are starving, probably within a few miles of where you are sitting. It all started making me uncomfortable and unhappy rather than feeling successful.

After trying several really large complex cases, some long messy jury trials, I pretty much hit my professional goals. however that did not seem like "success" Was I in the top 100 lawyers in my field? Why not the top 20? Why not top 10? Why not number 1 (if there was such a thing, which I eventually learned there isn't). Eventually i discovered that I did not want to be a partner anymore. Success was not success after all, it was just more and more stress, anxiety, ever harder work and more hours away from my family or doing what i wanted. My measure of success changed. To me, success then meant having a job that i do nto dread going to ever. Having a job that you can leave at work when you go home (and for that matter, having a job where you can actually go home, not out to some marketing endeavor) after work. to me success meant spending more time with the family, going for a kayak after work instead of disappearing into my home office to do time-sheets or review bills (or going to endless marketing events).

I looked for "success" in my spiritual life. Was it leading mission trips? Donating tens of thousands to the church at a time? Chairing the board of trustees? Teaching adult Sunday school? Was it thinking about God all the time and listening to Christian radio in my car? Nope nope and nope. there really is no such thing as "success" in religion. We are all failures, the goal is to keep trying.

I looked for "success in my parenting. Where was that? Was it raising really good students who take advanced math classes? Was it having everyone say we had the most polite children they had ever met? Maybe having a family with strong bonds of love between each other? None of those things felt like "success" Besides with any given child, all of those things come and go. Was it rasing happy well adjusted children? Nope that is up to them. Really all you can do s do the best you can with the tools you have and see what happens. It is not success any more than rolling boxcars at the craps table is success.

I have determined that "success" is a fallacy. It is never achievable. You will never say "Ah Ha! I am there. I have achieved the pinnacle fo success, there is nowhere to go form here." There is no dividing line where at point A you are not successful, but at point B you are successful. Instead you really need to focus on meeting your responsibilities, helping as many people as you can and having some fun with whatever you need to do along the way. There is no such thing as "success." At least not for me. A I mentioned, the definition varies for different people at different times. In this time, I have discovered that for me, there is no such thing as achieving success there is only doing the best you can and continually trying to do better.

[BigCityDreamer]

Originally Posted by Coldjensens

I have determined that "success" is a fallacy. It is never achievable. You will never say "Ah Ha! I am there. I have achieved the pinnacle fo success, there is nowhere to go form here." There is no dividing line where at point A you are not successful, but at point B you are successful.

Sure there is. If you can buy a 4,000 square foot living space in an upscale part of your city, then you crossed the finish line. Rest on your laurels now.

[griffon652]

Originally Posted by mysticaltyger

You're obviously really hurting right now. And I really hope you'll be able to fix the relationship with your wife and that it will be better between the two of you.

However, whether that happens or not, you don't want to just give up and blow all the money. Being miserable and rich is still A LOT better than being miserable and poor. I know it's hard to see right now, but the misery won't last forever.

Thank you for your kind words. I'm really trying to shake it off but its getting harder and harder every day. Hopefully I change my mind but I'm not counting on it.

[Rocko20]

Originally Posted by Coldjensens

I have determined that "success" is a fallacy. It is never achievable. You will never say "Ah Ha! I am there. I have achieved the pinnacle fo success, there is nowhere to go form here." There is no dividing line where at point A you are not successful, but at point B you are successful. Instead you really need to focus on meeting your responsibilities, helping as many people as you can and having some fun with whatever you need to do along the way. There is no such thing as "success." At least not for me. A I mentioned, the definition varies for different people at different times. In this time, I have discovered that for me, there is no such thing as achieving success there is only doing the best you can and continually trying to do better.

I agree. Success is largely a moving target (Hedonic treadmill). You made $1 million? Try to make 2. You own 1 house? Try to own another. You traveled to 20 countries? Travel to 20 more.

The only limit is age and time, which are finite. But as far as success goes, that finish stops when you’re 6 feet under.

[flyingsaucermom]

Originally Posted by Coldjensens

For me as a lawyer, it was a moving target. Making partner was a sort of goal, but not really a focus. In fact I was nto sure I wanted to be a partner for a long time. First I wanted a solo trial. Then I wanted a trial I could win (they give you the crap cases to try at first). Then I wanted a larger/more complex trial. Then I wanted to be lead counsel in a jury trial. Then I wants to be lead counsel in a long complex trial involving over $10 million. Then I wanted ever longer and more complex/higher dollar trials as lead counsel.

I also measured success by income level. I wanted to make over $X then I would surely be successful!. That was also a moving target. As soon as I hit X, it got bigger. There was always someone making more, even within our law firm. Where was the target? How many hundreds of thousands a year did I need to make to be "successful"? I never did find X, so maybe I was never successful.

When I proved myself, partnership just kind of popped in. I really was not pushing for it. Partnership is hard and scary at first. You income is no longer fixed. It varies wildly depending on your performance and the performance of your partners and associates. You have to buy in, and at first, you do not make that much more than you were making. You have to pay your own employer share of social security and pay taxes on phantom income. Your pay comes mostly at the end to the year (distribution time) and you never know how much it will be. You take on a lot of extra duties and responsibilities, and you must have an ever increasing book of business. You become responsible for maintaining the livelihood of associates, paralegals, and staff. You have to make hiring and firing decisions. It is not the best thing in the world. The money comes and grows and grows, then it comes and goes from year to year. There is no "success in making a lot of money. You always think you need t make more to be "successful" and you are always afraid of losing it once you start making it. I remember some rich clients being upset because the other guy's jet was bigger, or the other guys trophy wife was younger than his trophy wife. Even people making millions of dollars a year did not accept themselves as having achieved "success" Always more was required to make that achievement. Sure you may have five homes, a yacht, a jet fifty fancy cars, but do you own a national sports team? if no then you have not reached "success" It just keeps going and the bar is raised ever higher.

I liked the way I was treated by clients, consultants and other lawyers. Sometimes that made me feel 'successful" temporarily. I like the companies breaking out their limo to take me out to fancy lunches or their corporate Gulfstream to take me to a jobsite or meeting location. I tried to be impressed by the $1,000 a night hotel rooms, but I had a hard time distinguishing them from $90 hotel rooms. I thought it was cool, but I did not feel successful. Eventually I started feeling it was all stupid. Wasteful. $150 for a glass of scotch that you drink in less than an hour? WTF? People are starving, probably within a few miles of where you are sitting. It all started making me uncomfortable and unhappy rather than feeling successful.

After trying several really large complex cases, some long messy jury trials, I pretty much hit my professional goals. however that did not seem like "success" Was I in the top 100 lawyers in my field? Why not the top 20? Why not top 10? Why not number 1 (if there was such a thing, which I eventually learned there isn't). Eventually i discovered that I did not want to be a partner anymore. Success was not success after all, it was just more and more stress, anxiety, ever harder work and more hours away from my family or doing what i wanted. My measure of success changed. To me, success then meant having a job that i do nto dread going to ever. Having a job that you can leave at work when you go home (and for that matter, having a job where you can actually go home, not out to some marketing endeavor) after work. to me success meant spending more time with the family, going for a kayak after work instead of disappearing into my home office to do time-sheets or review bills (or going to endless marketing events).

I looked for "success" in my spiritual life. Was it leading mission trips? Donating tens of thousands to the church at a time? Chairing the board of trustees? Teaching adult Sunday school? Was it thinking about God all the time and listening to Christian radio in my car? Nope nope and nope. there really is no such thing as "success" in religion. We are all failures, the goal is to keep trying.

I looked for "success in my parenting. Where was that? Was it raising really good students who take advanced math classes? Was it having everyone say we had the most polite children they had ever met? Maybe having a family with strong bonds of love between each other? None of those things felt like "success" Besides with any given child, all of those things come and go. Was it rasing happy well adjusted children? Nope that is up to them. Really all you can do s do the best you can with the tools you have and see what happens. It is not success any more than rolling boxcars at the craps table is success.

I have determined that "success" is a fallacy. It is never achievable. You will never say "Ah Ha! I am there. I have achieved the pinnacle fo success, there is nowhere to go form here." There is no dividing line where at point A you are not successful, but at point B you are successful. Instead you really need to focus on meeting your responsibilities, helping as many people as you can and having some fun with whatever you need to do along the way. There is no such thing as "success." At least not for me. A I mentioned, the definition varies for different people at different times. In this time, I have discovered that for me, there is no such thing as achieving success there is only doing the best you can and continually trying to do better.

Quality post.

[BigCityDreamer]

Originally Posted by flyingsaucermom

Quality post.

It comes off as overthinking.

Life really isn’t that complicated.

[Coldjensens]

Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer

Sure there is. If you can buy a 4,000 square foot living space in an upscale part of your city, then you crossed the finish line. Rest on your laurels now.

A wise client once told me not to buy a big house. It destroys your family cohesion. I didn't listen but he was right to some extent. You have better family harmony in a small house where you are forced to do things together not go off into separate rooms to do your own thing on you own tv/computer/game system or whatever. Even if you are all reading or doing homework silently, there is a lot to be said for sitting in the same room together. Big house = big mistake. However no one will listen. They will say no that is just you. It does not apply to me. Later, if they are observant, they will agree but it will be too late. Then it will be their turn to be the old guy telling young rising stars not to fall for the big house fallacy. And on and on it goes. Get a little house. Divide the savings between retirement and travel. Or maybe get some fun toys.

[CorporateCowboy]

Originally Posted by Coldjensens

A wise client once told me not to buy a big house. It destroys your family cohesion. I didn't listen but he was right to some extent. You have better family harmony in a small house where you are forced to do things together not go off into separate rooms to do your own thing on you own tv/computer/game system or whatever. Even if you are all reading or doing homework silently, there is a lot to be said for sitting in the same room together. Big house = big mistake. However no one will listen. They will say no that is just you. It does not apply to me. Later, if they are observant, they will agree but it will be too late. Then it will be their turn to be the old guy telling young rising stars not to fall for the big house fallacy. And on and on it goes. Get a little house. Divide the savings between retirement and travel. Or maybe get some fun toys.

Neither 'big houses' nor success destroys relationships (or family cohesion). People do.