Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Successful = you are satisfied with your level of accomplishments in whatever you choose to do.
One of my son's is a crew coach (rowing). He will never be rich, but he will consider himself successful if he introduces a lot of kids to the sport he loves and lives for and helps them on the road to a healthier life. He may feel the need to coach a few national championship teams along the way as well. For him, for a while, success was only achieved by getting onto the Olympic team. When a change in rules shut that door, he changed his measure of "success"
A daughter is a psychology college professor and researcher To her, success is measured by the number and quality of her publications and her reviews or comments from students. She will also never achieve huge financial "success" and that is not a measure to her. She does not seem to care about the name recognition of the university she teaches and research from as long as she knows her research is quality and useful and her students are learning and growing. the big name Universities neither impress nor daunt her, she only wants to find a good fit for her area of research. Although teaching brighter students is both easier and more rewarding, she is happy teaching anyone who learns and benefits from her teaching. If her students are learning and people she is contributing to the knowledge and understanding of psychology through her research, then she is successful whether she is at an Ivy League school or Podunk college.
To me, "success" has varied in what I use as a measuring stick. For a time it was income. Then I realize that is very - non-fulfilling. I was a trial lawyer. For a while I measured success in taking on every more complex cases with larger and larger dollar values. After at time, I realized is was destroying my health and reaching the pinnacle of that path gave me no satisfaction whatsoever. It was just harder and harder work and more and more hours. Lots of money, but no time to really enjoy it.
what is success in parenting? Wealthy kids? Happy kids? Kids who make big contributions to their community, or to their field of science, or who become CEO or big time politicians?
If you or your kids marry into a wealthy family, is that success?
Successful = you are satisfied with your level of accomplishments in whatever you choose to do.
One of my son's is a crew coach (rowing). He will never be rich, but he will consider himself successful if he introduces a lot of kids to the sport he loves and lives for and helps them on the road to a healthier life. He may feel the need to coach a few national championship teams along the way as well. For him, for a while, success was only achieved by getting onto the Olympic team. When a change in rules shut that door, he changed his measure of "success"
A daughter is a psychology college professor and researcher To her, success is measured by the number and quality of her publications and her reviews or comments from students. She will also never achieve huge financial "success" and that is not a measure to her. She does not seem to care about the name recognition of the university she teaches and research from as long as she knows her research is quality and useful and her students are learning and growing. the big name Universities neither impress nor daunt her, she only wants to find a good fit for her area of research. Although teaching brighter students is both easier and more rewarding, she is happy teaching anyone who learns and benefits from her teaching. If her students are learning and people she is contributing to the knowledge and understanding of psychology through her research, then she is successful whether she is at an Ivy League school or Podunk college.
To me, "success" has varied in what I use as a measuring stick. For a time it was income. Then I realize that is very - non-fulfilling. I was a trial lawyer. For a while I measured success in taking on every more complex cases with larger and larger dollar values. After at time, I realized is was destroying my health and reaching the pinnacle of that path gave me no satisfaction whatsoever. It was just harder and harder work and more and more hours. Lots of money, but no time to really enjoy it.
what is success in parenting? Wealthy kids? Happy kids? Kids who make big contributions to their community, or to their field of science, or who become CEO or big time politicians?
If you or your kids marry into a wealthy family, is that success?
My sister has been trying to marry off her daughter for years. She was practically drooling when her daughter was dating a future doctor.
We've all heard the word 'successful" be applied to people in various contexts whether it's a book about the habits of highly successful people or the friend who tried to once hook you up with a potential mate who was described as being "wildly successful." But what does this really mean? Take the following scenarios, for example. Which of these individuals would you consider a "success"?
-Jason was an All-State high school basketball star, an All-Conference star in college, and was drafted in the 2nd Round by the Minnesota Timberwolves. While Jason managed to put together a 12-year NBA career, he played for 8 different teams in that span, making it into the starting rotation only a few times, and played mostly as a backup. For short periods of time, he was relegated to the G-League, the NBA's minor league. He never won a championship and put up pedestrian numbers that failed to merit him any individual distinction or recognition. The fanbases for the teams he played for mostly don't even know who he is. Despite his lack of recognition at the pro level, Jason earned more than $50 million during his 12-year career. At 34, he's retired and has unsuccessfully tried his hand at sports broadcasting. He's not cut out to be a "front office" guy. He's still in the process of trying to figure out his post-NBA life and sits around the house most days in a semi-deep depression. Successful; do not confuse depression at the end of the competitive athletic career with a lack of success. He's still better than 99.9% of anyone that ever put on a High School Jersey. If he did even a mediocre job of investing and
-Jenna knew from the very beginning she wanted to be a "creative" and followed her heart's desire. After college, Jenna hustled and found employment with a major publication as a photographer and editor, quickly distinguishing herself. After having received several promotions and awards, Jenna decides it's a good time to strike out on her own in her early 30s and open her own studio. However, Jenna was never the most business-savvy person, and her studio completely flops within 5 years. Jenna is then forced to go back to her old company with hat in hand. She gets hired back, but at a lower position than the one she was in when she left. She's become somewhat of a cautionary tale around the office. When she goes to the lunchroom one day, she overhears a couple of people saying that she "failed to live up to her potential." Jenna still produces brilliant work, but feels very bad about the state of her career. Successful as an editor and photographer; It's merely intermission in her career, and new opportunities will avail themselves if she keeps her head up
-Brian graduated from Princeton and Wharton with honors and landed a high-paying job on Wall Street. After 10 years, Brian is still on Wall Street, making approximately $500,000 per year. Brian is good at his job, but not great, and has maxed out his promotion potential. In fact, people who are younger than him have been promoted ahead of him. He thinks his job is pointless and not really intellectually stimulating but he stays in it for the money. He'd like to leave and follow his "passion" but he hasn't really figured out what that is yet. For the time being, he's content to keep getting large paychecks until he's laid off or fired, whichever comes first. What was his goal? Actually he sounds like the owner of a coffee shop I know, that quit his job as an investment banker to start a coffee shop (and now owns several of them.)
-Peter has been working to make a partner at a large law firm for the past several years. He's put all of his energy into this pursuit. During the last partnership meeting, the partners voted against making Peter a partner for the third time. Peter decides to leave his firm and finds a solid in-house gig at a company that pays him $200,000 per year plus stock options. However, this is less than his salary at the firm, and a lot less than the $700,000+ he was expecting to make as partner. To make matters worse, one of his close friends, Mary, made partner, and while Peter is happy for her, he can't help but feel like he just wasn't good enough. Peter has no reason at all to doubt his wife's loyalty, but he can't shake the feeling in the back of his mind that he's failed her. His wife is a younger, hot number, and the other day when Peter went to pick her up from yoga class, he noticed her talking to a dashing, salt and peppered hair gentleman that was standing next to an Aston-Martin. Not successful since his stated goal was to make partner.
-Mary is a much better attorney than Peter. But she only ended up being an attorney because she couldn't figure out what to do after college with a degree in English and Creative Writing. Mary likes the work, but doesn't love it. After a few years, her salary swells way into the 7-figure range. Mary finds herself increasingly unhappy with her work/life balance and often wonders if she made a huge mistake by choosing this career path. With a 7 figure salary she shouldn't have to work too much longer unless she really enjoys a 7 figure lifestyle...I had at least two teachers that became teachers in their late 40's or 50's after tiring of their business careers
-Paul had a hard upbringing. He managed to scrap his way through the 4th best public university in his state. After college, he got a low-level cubicle job at a paper company making $40,000 per year, but through hard work and determination he has worked his way up to middle management and now makes $120,000 per year. In Paul's mind, he has "made it."
The premise conflates "success" with "Contentment" or "happiness." One can be successful without being happy or content.
A daughter is a psychology college professor and researcher To her, success is measured by the number and quality of her publications and her reviews or comments from students. She will also never achieve huge financial "success" and that is not a measure to her. She does not seem to care about the name recognition of the university she teaches and research from as long as she knows her research is quality and useful and her students are learning and growing. the big name Universities neither impress nor daunt her, she only wants to find a good fit for her area of research. Although teaching brighter students is both easier and more rewarding, she is happy teaching anyone who learns and benefits from her teaching. If her students are learning and people she is contributing to the knowledge and understanding of psychology through her research, then she is successful whether she is at an Ivy League school or Podunk college.
It sounds like her definition of success is pretty "standard" for her field. IE, for some lawyers it's defined as making partner. For an athlete or coach it's a coaching position or competition at a certain caliber.
But just like coaching, isn't academics very segmented? IE, if you're into Forensic analysis (CSI type style) then Western Carolina U has few peers, though as a whole it may not exactly be an illustrious or highly regarded school.
So while she might not be at an Ivy league, she may be at one of the better spots for what she does.
If you don't know who you are, what your values are, why you have those values, and a few other things, any measurement of "success" is built on quicksand. Only a handful of people are willing to dig down, examine what they have been taught and come up with a personal code of ethics and beliefs. Some of the richest and most "successful" people I know are failed human beings.
Successful = you are satisfied with your level of accomplishments in whatever you choose to do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JONOV
The premise conflates "success" with "Contentment" or "happiness." One can be successful without being happy or content.
Quote:
Originally Posted by harry chickpea
If you don't know who you are, what your values are, why you have those values, and a few other things, any measurement of "success" is built on quicksand.
The question of the extent to which money, is congruent with success, is eternal and unanswerable. It depends very much on culture. In some cultures, "success" is being able to throw a spear further than anyone else in the village.
Harry's point, about whether any external manifestations of "success" have any significance without an inner homeostasis, is another eternal question. If few of us have the requisite self-knowledge, does that mean that success is inevitably going to be ephemeral?
I would instead offer some intellectually vapid but very practical ideas.
First, success is a matter of reputation and group approval. Whether or not I've met my own goals, is secondary to whether I'm appreciated, respected and lauded. I could be internally dissatisfied, or on the contrary, perfectly content. Doesn't matter. It's the perception by others, and not the "reality" in any objective sense.
Second, success means a monotonic increase. In the OP's first example, Jason in particular, and other characters too, are unsuccessful because after their great act, they have no greater follow-up act. What have they done lately? Are they better off today, than they were 5 years ago? A brilliant medical doctor, who invents a fabulous new treatment that saves thousands of lives, and makes tens of millions of dollars in the process, but who then commits sexual assault and goes to prison, is not successful.
Third, to the extent that success is material, it's a matter of what one has accumulated, and not what one has earned, or may be earning now. All of the persons in the OP's vignette need to be asked: "what's your net-worth?"
We've all heard the word 'successful" be applied to people in various contexts whether it's a book about the habits of highly successful people or the friend who tried to once hook you up with a potential mate who was described as being "wildly successful." But what does this really mean? Take the following scenarios, for example. Which of these individuals would you consider a "success"?
-Jason was an All-State high school basketball star, an All-Conference star in college, and was drafted in the 2nd Round by the Minnesota Timberwolves. While Jason managed to put together a 12-year NBA career, he played for 8 different teams in that span, making it into the starting rotation only a few times, and played mostly as a backup. For short periods of time, he was relegated to the G-League, the NBA's minor league. He never won a championship and put up pedestrian numbers that failed to merit him any individual distinction or recognition. The fanbases for the teams he played for mostly don't even know who he is. Despite his lack of recognition at the pro level, Jason earned more than $50 million during his 12-year career. At 34, he's retired and has unsuccessfully tried his hand at sports broadcasting. He's not cut out to be a "front office" guy. He's still in the process of trying to figure out his post-NBA life and sits around the house most days in a semi-deep depression.
-Jenna knew from the very beginning she wanted to be a "creative" and followed her heart's desire. After college, Jenna hustled and found employment with a major publication as a photographer and editor, quickly distinguishing herself. After having received several promotions and awards, Jenna decides it's a good time to strike out on her own in her early 30s and open her own studio. However, Jenna was never the most business-savvy person, and her studio completely flops within 5 years. Jenna is then forced to go back to her old company with hat in hand. She gets hired back, but at a lower position than the one she was in when she left. She's become somewhat of a cautionary tale around the office. When she goes to the lunchroom one day, she overhears a couple of people saying that she "failed to live up to her potential." Jenna still produces brilliant work, but feels very bad about the state of her career.
-Brian graduated from Princeton and Wharton with honors and landed a high-paying job on Wall Street. After 10 years, Brian is still on Wall Street, making approximately $500,000 per year. Brian is good at his job, but not great, and has maxed out his promotion potential. In fact, people who are younger than him have been promoted ahead of him. He thinks his job is pointless and not really intellectually stimulating but he stays in it for the money. He'd like to leave and follow his "passion" but he hasn't really figured out what that is yet. For the time being, he's content to keep getting large paychecks until he's laid off or fired, whichever comes first.
-Peter has been working to make a partner at a large law firm for the past several years. He's put all of his energy into this pursuit. During the last partnership meeting, the partners voted against making Peter a partner for the third time. Peter decides to leave his firm and finds a solid in-house gig at a company that pays him $200,000 per year plus stock options. However, this is less than his salary at the firm, and a lot less than the $700,000+ he was expecting to make as partner. To make matters worse, one of his close friends, Mary, made partner, and while Peter is happy for her, he can't help but feel like he just wasn't good enough. Peter has no reason at all to doubt his wife's loyalty, but he can't shake the feeling in the back of his mind that he's failed her. His wife is a younger, hot number, and the other day when Peter went to pick her up from yoga class, he noticed her talking to a dashing, salt and peppered hair gentleman that was standing next to an Aston-Martin.
-Mary is a much better attorney than Peter. But she only ended up being an attorney because she couldn't figure out what to do after college with a degree in English and Creative Writing. Mary likes the work, but doesn't love it. After a few years, her salary swells way into the 7-figure range. Mary finds herself increasingly unhappy with her work/life balance and often wonders if she made a huge mistake by choosing this career path.
-Paul had a hard upbringing. He managed to scrap his way through the 4th best public university in his state. After college, he got a low-level cubicle job at a paper company making $40,000 per year, but through hard work and determination he has worked his way up to middle management and now makes $120,000 per year. In Paul's mind, he has "made it."
I would consider myself myself successful if i had a career and was at least a millionaire next door.
The premise conflates "success" with "Contentment" or "happiness." One can be successful without being happy or content.
True, but conversely, one is rarely content or happy without some level of success.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_
Agreed. It seems to me for some money is a big part of the equation for others not so much for some and for others money barely seems to matter.
It tends not to matter to those who don't have it i.e. a form of denial; yet, those same people will continuously attempt to drag down those who do have it. Why would that be necessary, if it truly didn't matter?
The reality is, money isn't a dirty word - and we all need it to survive. Hence the (obvious) reason 'success' is so often associated with it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by harry chickpea
Some of the richest and most "successful" people I know are failed human beings.
Case in (my previous) point - as many unsuccessful people are 'failed human beings' as well. Lack of success/money does not automatically translate to morality or superior integrity; one need only think of crime.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
