Debate Rages On - Generous UI Benefits Cause People Not To Work, Or Do They? (credit card, debt)

[artillery77]

Originally Posted by KaraG

Most employees don't get that choice. The employer decides who to lay off and if they refuse to come back to work, they're required to report that to the state so the UI benefits will be cut off.

I believe someone actually doing that at a large company would quickly find themselves less popular than the whistleblower at Enron. Besides, naturally companies would come back slowly, seeking part time and later full time work. It's still a pretty sick economy out there.

[Eeko156]

FL max UE is $ 275.00 (most folks don't get the max) + $ 600 = 875 wk .
I suppose if someone was making minimum wage (in which case they would not be receiving $ 275/max per week), it might be a deterrent depending on the individual.

I think most people just want to get back to work, get good health insurance and stability in their lives.

[RJ312]

Originally Posted by ddeemo

White collar jobs take long to get hired?

UI should last almost 2 years and should be 70-80% of salary - why? That would create a huge disincentive to find work because 70-80% is about the same as take home after account for payroll and income taxes and 6 months should be enough to find a job normally. Lets not give away the major incentives to fine =d work, We don't need more that see UI as a way to live instead of just a help.

Average Duration of Unemployment Report

Article 2 on the topic

Although these reports are older, the trends illustrated in them are still relevant. The trends are actually getting worse. Also, keep in mind that white collar work has the longest stints of unemployment because white collar interview processes are longer than blue collar or low wage service sector ones. Right now, white collar hiring is still paralyzed. The only jobs recovered are the low wage service sector ones.

I finished my MBA in the 2007-08 school year, a mere months before everything went downhill with Lehman's collapse. Most of my graduating class had extended stints of unemployment. We were not droolers. We had MBAs, which is impressive compared to the general population. There were members of my graduating class that were out of work between 2-5 years after graduation. They had to either move in with their parents, take irregular freelance work within their fields, or work low level service sector jobs. Since an MBA graduatate is roughly 28-32 years old at the time of graduation, imagine a 30 year old MBA graduate working at the front desk of a Hampton Inn. That was employment, but massive underemployment. Examples similar to these happened to people in my graduating class, and across the country.

My rough age cohort (early Millennials 1982-1986 births) has taken a double beating. Many in my age cohort took extended stints of unemployment and/or underemployment due to 2008, and my early Millennial cohort is taking a lot of layoffs in 2020. We weren't as privileged as the Baby Boomers, or the early to mid 1970s born X'ers who graduated into the dot com Boom of the mid-1990s.

Millennials are a lost generation.

Since the employment situation for white collar workers is so bad, white collar workers need 99 weeks of unemployment. Right now, you have the earliest white collar worker layoffs who have already exhausted their 26 weeks of standard unemployment. Since white collar hiring is paralyzed, they'll probably be out of work much longer. They are getting 13 weeks CARES Act protections, but for many that won't be enough. Also, the amounts are paltry. I'll get into that in a moment. Sadly, neither political party wants to address this problem.

Originally Posted by Eeko156

FL max UE is $ 275.00 (most folks don't get the max) + $ 600 = 875 wk .
I suppose if someone was making minimum wage (in which case they would not be receiving $ 275/max per week), it might be a deterrent depending on the individual.

I think most people just want to get back to work, get good health insurance and stability in their lives.

In most states, the max UE is appropriate for a McDonald's cashier, not a white collar worker. White collar workers cannot live on max standard UE. The supplemental $ get the equation closer to normal. We have had a shift in the economy from blue collar manufacturing work to white collar knowledge work or low wage service sector work. In 1970, a high school graduate could get decent paying factory work or have more blue collar options. The typical high school graduate now is looking at a job at McDonald's or Walmart. Because working at Walmart stinks, a lot of people go get a BA/BS degree. Some even get MA/MS/MBA/JD graduate level degrees. Unemployment was designed for the blue collar worker of 1970, not the 21st Century white collar worker.

The supplemental dollars to the standard unemployment just made lower level individual contributor white collar workers whole (generally the white collar workers earnings $75,000 or less, who took the brunt of the layoffs since S flows downhill). The higher level white collar workers still didn't get full replacement of income.

We need 99 weeks of unemployment at 70-80% of previous salary to get a better, more reasonable system in place that reflects the modern work environment.

[skeddy]

staying out of work as long as possible will look good on a resume when no more covid benefits are available. So will that big zero for contributions to SS for the year.

[mathjak107]

ss isn't a problem as it is made up of just the 35 highest years inflation adjusted . ... so you can miss years with no effect .

some of my highest years were actually back in the 1990' s once inflation adjusted .

[1insider]

Originally Posted by Eeko156

FL max UE is $ 275.00 (most folks don't get the max) + $ 600 = 875 wk .
I suppose if someone was making minimum wage (in which case they would not be receiving $ 275/max per week), it might be a deterrent depending on the individual.

I think most people just want to get back to work, get good health insurance and stability in their lives.

Florida is a nightmare for unemployed folks looking for relief. Even when you qualify, actually getting those benefits becomes a new full-time job for many.

[ddeemo]

Originally Posted by MrRational

Your experience is called an anecdote. As to the rest of humanity ... it is a long observed
and generally accurate truism going back since the 80's (when I first became aware of it)
and existed even well before: One Month of Search Process per $10,000 of Salary.

The implication being that any reputable and conscientious employer is NOT in a hurry,
that they're NOT merely filling a slot on a schedule with a warm body (as seems so common today)...
and as a consequence the more qualified you are, the more you're worth, the longer it SHOULD take.

eta: All of this is a large part of the "Six Months Emergency Fund" discussions and advice.

hth

Calling something "long observed" and "accurate truism" does not make something less of an anecdote if not validated by data. My experiences are more than an anecdote - as I was both in charge of hiring others as well as being hired. According to your stats, it should take me more than a year to find a job and more than a year to fill others - if it took that long the job would not be needed - that is longer than some projects last.

The more qualified someone is, the less time it takes not more because smaller pool that can fill the job - most well compensated are hired through references and reputation, not just by submitting a resume. The interview is mainly a formality sometimes.

I think we are talking different levels of qualifications and compensation - in my work area most have had a new job before they leave the last one. Heck one time I had to start the new job before I could leave the old one - kind of tricky because one was on the east coast and one on the west coast but both employers knew and agreed to the split.

I agree with the 6 month emergency, but always had much more - it is called investments - probably could support several years if needed.

[ddeemo]

Originally Posted by RJ312

Average Duration of Unemployment Report

Article 2 on the topic

Although these reports are older, the trends illustrated in them are still relevant. The trends are actually getting worse. Also, keep in mind that white collar work has the longest stints of unemployment because white collar interview processes are longer than blue collar or low wage service sector ones. Right now, white collar hiring is still paralyzed. The only jobs recovered are the low wage service sector ones.

I finished my MBA in the 2007-08 school year, a mere months before everything went downhill with Lehman's collapse. Most of my graduating class had extended stints of unemployment. We were not droolers. We had MBAs, which is impressive compared to the general population. There were members of my graduating class that were out of work between 2-5 years after graduation. They had to either move in with their parents, take irregular freelance work within their fields, or work low level service sector jobs. Since an MBA graduatate is roughly 28-32 years old at the time of graduation, imagine a 30 year old MBA graduate working at the front desk of a Hampton Inn. That was employment, but massive underemployment. Examples similar to these happened to people in my graduating class, and across the country.

My rough age cohort (early Millennials 1982-1986 births) has taken a double beating. Many in my age cohort took extended stints of unemployment and/or underemployment due to 2008, and my early Millennial cohort is taking a lot of layoffs in 2020. We weren't as privileged as the Baby Boomers, or the early to mid 1970s born X'ers who graduated into the dot com Boom of the mid-1990s.

Millennials are a lost generation.

Since the employment situation for white collar workers is so bad, white collar workers need 99 weeks of unemployment. Right now, you have the earliest white collar worker layoffs who have already exhausted their 26 weeks of standard unemployment. Since white collar hiring is paralyzed, they'll probably be out of work much longer. They are getting 13 weeks CARES Act protections, but for many that won't be enough. Also, the amounts are paltry. I'll get into that in a moment. Sadly, neither political party wants to address this problem.

I finished my MBA quite a bit earlier and am quite a bit older so have seen similar downturns. Your story was because of bad timing starting a new career, I know it is not your fault - but those already employed did not have those same experiences. In Jan 2008, I changed jobs and employer and started my new job without even a day break in between. I have never been on unemployment - not as white collar nor even when I was working blue collar in HS and College.

[RJ312]

Originally Posted by ddeemo

I finished my MBA quite a bit earlier and am quite a bit older so have seen similar downturns. Your story was because of bad timing starting a new career, I know it is not your fault - but those already employed did not have those same experiences. In Jan 2008, I changed jobs and employer and started my new job without even a day break in between. I have never been on unemployment - not as white collar nor even when I was working blue collar in HS and College.

My 2007-08 school year MBA graduation was the worst timing in history. Maybe only the MBA classes of 2020 and 2021 have had or will have it worse.

A lot of Millennials have been on unemployment at some point in the last 13 years. Millennials as a whole have had a worse go of it than either the Boomers or Gen X'ers.

[Serious Conversation]

Originally Posted by ddeemo

I finished my MBA quite a bit earlier and am quite a bit older so have seen similar downturns. Your story was because of bad timing starting a new career, I know it is not your fault - but those already employed did not have those same experiences. In Jan 2008, I changed jobs and employer and started my new job without even a day break in between. I have never been on unemployment - not as white collar nor even when I was working blue collar in HS and College.

This recession is fundamentally different because it wasn't caused by something underlying like a financial crisis, ecological problem, or war. It was caused by voluntary economic shutdowns induced by a disease.

What's important to keep in mind is that governments voluntarily shutdown their economies, ostensibly to protect the population from the virus. In most cases, the virus wasn't stopped and the shutdowns damaged economies worse than doing nothing at all.