Americans are the richest they have ever been (IRA, purchase, sell)
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There's nothing like good debt when a person is struggling to pay it off or has no chance of paying it off. And if mortgage were good debt, there would never have been the GFC/housing crash. For many, especially in this forum, a mortgage is never meant to be paid off.
We just went through a dotcom and housing bubble, where on this flat earth have you been since 1929?
You don't seem to grasp what I was saying - it is personal a choice to take on ANY debt - good or bad. I am not talking about getting out of debt, I am talking about what debt is Ok to get into. No one should take on debt that they can't pay off but what is worse, most choose to take on debt that is bad instead of good.
I have owned property since the 80s so have experienced the ups and downs of property ownership. I have paid off many mortgages, the first one in 1983 with 15% interest when I was 25 and making very little. A housing bubble is different than a housing crash - the bubble / GFC was caused by US admin encouraging banks to lend to those that could not afford to repay driving up prices. Good for those selling, bad for those buying.
I think you will find that many here are not in a situation where struggling in debt and mortgage is never paid off. If you are - try working it off instead of getting further and further behind and just giving up.
The Dotcom bubble was 25 years ago, housing bubble was 12 years ago - what is your point, My response about 1929 was in response to you comment "If it were not for the ever increasing debt bubble the country would be in a 1930's depression." - the crash of 1929 was example of the exact opposite where debt caused the crash, not saved it - where on your flat earth have you been - did you forget your own statement?
The US Household Net Worth has hit records! This is totally at odds with the media narrative that so many people are suffering, so many people are living paycheck to paycheck etc.
Nationwide Housing prices are skyrocketing and people are falling hand over fist to buy them which only has to mean that there are way too many people with wads of cash for a down payment and getting wads of cash as income since qualification guidelines are still very strict. Many of these homes are crazy expensive too and still have hordes of buyers.
TSLA is having record deliveries which implies demand for a very expensive luxury product, which is what I consider Tesla to be, is at all time highs. This makes no sense if everyone has no money like you ready daily in the media.
K374, City-Data-forum's search engines don't seem to work. I can't find any post within this thread mentioning the U.S. dollar's purchasing power. The U.S. dollar's of variable value. Respectfully, Supposn
So you are saying the economic disparity in the US is much less than defined by the Gini index?
No. I'm pointing out that GINI tends to penalize large, dynamic and growing economies while rewarding small, moribund economies. Coal towns in Wales, with horrendous real money metrics have great GINI numbers while San Jose has terrible GINI numbers.
Further, in most ways that matter the poor through median earners are much better off in SF than some forgotten city in Wales..........while this isn't a great metric for desribing individual wealth, and there are couple of countries in which the stat is corrupted by tax haven status - Ireland and natural resources lottery winners like Norway and Qatar, it does shine light on GDP vs. local money values/buying power most everwhere else. Accroding to The IMF per capita GDP at purchasing power parity in The US is $67,426.....in The UK $48,169. People in The UK are competing for a proportionally much smaller slice of economic pie.
IMO people should know GINI numbers, understand what they mean but use them as nothing more than a de minimus econometric benchmark per area.
Sorry for the typos and run ons......very little time..........
I included no "stats"with my comment. Are you dreaming?
What people consider themselves in terms of class, has little to do with reality - or wealth. People assign themselves a class that may have little basis in reality.
That 29% of our country is poor, is a disgrace.
As far as my being "fed information" - far from it. I seek out information from many sources. I avoid Fox. It's commentary, not news.
I read, watch and listen to many news sources. Do you?
that is a disgrace, 6 million job opening in the US, everywhere you look there are help wanted signs. Why don't they get a second job?
You picked probably the second most unequal city in the US and came to the conclusion that the poor are better off than in Wales (read Cardiff for better comparison purposes). SMH!
FYI, if I was poor I'd rather be poor in a resource rich country, like the 2 you have mentioned, because they have better social nets/programs from the underclass. I've actually been to Qatar and even though it is stinking rich I did not see anything that comes close to a ghetto. Bear in mind the majority of their population are temporary immigrant workers, I think 60% of the population because the state takes care of the citizens. Mind you I was driving myself so I got to venture out more than your average tourist. I've also been to Ireland and like the UK, they have better social programs than the US. This is why you are yet to witness the kind of turmoil you are seeing in the US.
Which brings me back to my point, the gini is as accurate as you can get with measuring the increasing social disparity in the US.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_
No. I'm pointing out that GINI tends to penalize large, dynamic and growing economies while rewarding small, moribund economies. Coal towns in Wales, with horrendous real money metrics have great GINI numbers while San Jose has terrible GINI numbers.
Further, in most ways that matter the poor through median earners are much better off in SF than some forgotten city in Wales..........while this isn't a great metric for desribing individual wealth, and there are couple of countries in which the stat is corrupted by tax haven status - Ireland and natural resources lottery winners like Norway and Qatar, it does shine light on GDP vs. local money values/buying power most everwhere else. Accroding to The IMF per capita GDP at purchasing power parity in The US is $67,426.....in The UK $48,169. People in The UK are competing for a proportionally much smaller slice of economic pie.
IMO people should know GINI numbers, understand what they mean but use them as nothing more than a de minimus econometric benchmark per area.
Sorry for the typos and run ons......very little time..........
that is a disgrace, 6 million job opening in the US, everywhere you look there are help wanted signs. Why don't they get a second job?
Because in retail, their first job requires a 'flexible schedule' which is entirely about flexibility on behalf of the on-call 24/7 employee and not on behalf of the employer and those unpredictable hours not only make it really hard to impossible to get scheduled on that second job but also make it hard to get education to get ahead. There are a lot of parts of higher ed that don't work well on an online asynchronous schedule model (100 and 200 level math class pass rates for online are typically a bloodbath) and Walmart and the like often will not work around a class schedule even though they claim otherwise.
You picked probably the second most unequal city in the US and came to the conclusion that the poor are better off than in Wales (read Cardiff for better comparison purposes). SMH!
FYI, if I was poor I'd rather be poor in a resource rich country, like the 2 you have mentioned, because they have better social nets/programs from the underclass. I've actually been to Qatar and even though it is stinking rich I did not see anything that comes close to a ghetto. Bear in mind the majority of their population are temporary immigrant workers, I think 60% of the population because the state takes care of the citizens. Mind you I was driving myself so I got to venture out more than your average tourist. I've also been to Ireland and like the UK, they have better social programs than the US. This is why you are yet to witness the kind of turmoil you are seeing in the US.
Which brings me back to my point, the gini is as accurate as you can get with measuring the increasing social disparity in the US.
I picked SJ/SF to make a point....shake your head all you'd like.
The Palma Index is probably better or at least more useful. The Atkinson Index takes into account things like literacy, mortality etc.
Another problem with GINI is that it does not account for direct or in-kind transfers at all.......ergo in rich countires the plight of poor people is relativistically overstated............things like free/discounted food, rent/housing, clothes etc. are not accounted for.
So no, GINI is not the best tool with which to campare inequality.
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If you are intersted in this area I'd suggest Edward Wolff's work which shows that wealth inequality in The US isn't much different than the early 1960s. (NBER working paper 20733).
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Regarding your second to last point. According to The OECD SOCX Database and these are round numbers from all sources The US spends 30% of GDP annually on social welfare items, GB 24.5%, Ireland 16.1%.
K374, City-Data-forum's search engines don't seem to work. I can't find any post within this thread mentioning the U.S. dollar's purchasing power. The U.S. dollar's of variable value. Respectfully, Supposn
Sorry to disappoint you, but across the metrics that matter US purchasing power across all incomes is high relative to nearly all peer and semi-peer countries.
Foreshadowing note: please don't reflexively fight me on this. I'm right. You seem to be looking at this from an FX POV which is a different matter.
In other words the median standard of living in The US is better than across most of Europe and nearly everyplace else.
Sorry to disappoint you, but across the metrics that matter US purchasing power across all incomes is high relative to nearly all peer and semi-peer countries.
Foreshadowing note: please don't reflexively fight me on this. I'm right. You seem to be looking at this from an FX POV which is a different matter.
In other words the median standard of living in The US is better than across most of Europe and nearly everyplace else.
EDS, the author within your provided link, Racesh K0chhar of the Pew Research Organization, wrote of United States median after tax income being greater than those of all other Western European nations other than Luxenberg; but does that take into account that Western European governments’ rather than their populations subsidize or fully pay for much of what USA consumers are expected to pay from their “disposable" (i.e. after tax) incomes?
Many contend “REAL” purchasing powers Western European nations’ median incomes are annually increasing at a substantially greater rate than that of the USA. If Western Europe has not yet passed us, they’ve been narrowing the gap between us. Respectfully, Supposn
Sorry to disappoint you, but across the metrics that matter US purchasing power across all incomes is high relative to nearly all peer and semi-peer countries.
Foreshadowing note: please don't reflexively fight me on this. I'm right. You seem to be looking at this from an FX POV which is a different matter.
In other words the median standard of living in The US is better than across most of Europe and nearly everyplace else.
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